Understanding the Conservative Mindset

[Cain]

Negative partisanship means most people are not voting for candidates; they're voting against candidates. The Republican Party has a virtual monopoly on opposition to the Democratic Party, and vice versa. Between the two, I think it's reality-defying to regard the parties as equally bad when it comes to the mistreatment of women or general corruption or conspiracy-mongering. Almost twenty years ago, I created a thread with a poll titled, Republicans are in it to win it. A majority of the idiots who voted said that Democrats and Republicans are "equally power hungry."

It is rather interesting that a criticism of progressives is that they practice "suicidal empathy," but this apparently does not apply to winning elections, where they're just ruthless maximizers. Paraphrasing former Republican and lifelong warmonger/Israel apologist David Frum, "Having played on the side of the GOP, I know just how good my old team is at this game." The obvious solution to all of this nonsense is to have institutions that reflect our political culture: we need a parliamentary system. However, abolishing the Senate and the Electoral College is associated with the "crazy commies" in the DSA. Under proportional representation, Democrats can defect to a left-leaning party when Bill Clinton molests women. Conservatives who do not support Trump can join with the Libertarians or create a viable alternative party. But such a system in the US is actual science fiction. A more realistic possibility in the minds of voters is that AI robots slit our throats.

 

[ponderingturtle]

That's not correct. Perhaps all the states have laws and high penalties if an employer tries to cheat an employee. The feds will come down hard if the employer fails to pay social security or other payroll taxes.

Wrong failure to pay what you owe an employee like not paying them overtime and so forth is not a crime it is a tort. Failure to pay taxes is a different issue.

 

[d4m10n]

I think it's reality-defying to regard the parties as equally bad when it comes to the mistreatment of women

People with the conservative mindset would heartily agree; they believe women have been very poorly served by liberal reforms generally and the sexual revolution in particular.

 

[Cain]

People with the conservative mindset would heartily agree; they believe women have been very poorly served by liberal reforms generally and the sexual revolution in particular.

The original claim refers to the parties as currently constituted, whereas you're apparently trying to revisit a culture war from over half a century ago. Point blank: Do you think the Republican coalition is clearly a better advocate for women suffering from mistreatment? You do not need to tell me that Republicans think they're better advocates. You also do not need to tell me that Donald Trump thinks he's the greatest leader in world history.

Someone with a conservative mindset might argue, "Women today would not face as much harassment and abuse in the workplace if they were at home raising children. They'd also be happier and less likely to suffer from mental illness." That could all be true and interesting, but it's not all that relevant to how the parties handle the abuse of women in their ranks. You could say that you trust your daughter with a more conservative-minded Mike Pence than libertine Eric Swalwell, but, again, this says little to nothing about the culture of the parties today.

When it comes to "liberal reforms" and "the sexual revolution," I'm inclined to be a good Marxist/sane person and contend these social changes were largely driven by technology rather than ideology. The pill did a lot more for feminism than Betty Friedan. A conservative mindset is more interesting when it's at odds with the profitability of big business (and that's also when it's more likely to be a cultural and political loser).

 

[dirtywick]

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5999320-poll-trump-voters-sexual-assault/

recent polling on mistreatment of women, doesn't seem like something that is much of a factor in their choice tbh

More than half of MAGA voters say they would support a Republican candidate accused of sexual assault, according to a new poll.

In a recent Politico poll, 66 percent of MAGA voters who cast their ballot for President Trump in his last contest for the White House said they would back a GOP candidate even if “a former partner has accused the Republican candidate of sexual assault” rather than support the Democratic candidate in a hypothetical congressional race.

Twenty-five percent of the MAGA voters said they would not cast their ballot for either candidate in the same hypothetical race, while 9 percent of the same group said they would cast their ballot for the Democrat.

In a larger group of Republican-leaning respondents, 42 percent said they would cast their ballot for the GOP candidate accused of sexual assault, while 11 percent went for the Democrat and 47 percent went for neither.

 

[d4m10n]

Do you think the Republican coalition is clearly a better advocate for women suffering from mistreatment?

I've not claimed to have a "conservative mindset" since the Reagan Era, so it's hard for me to say why you think my opinions are on point here.

You do not need to tell me that Republicans think they're better advocates.

Well...at least it would be topical.

You could say that you trust your daughter with a more conservative-minded Mike Pence than libertine Eric Swalwell, but, again, this says little to nothing about the culture of the parties today.

It doesn't make too much sense to reframe a thread from NZ in terms of American political parties.

 

[d4m10n]

"More than half of MAGA voters say they would support a Republican candidate accused of sexual assault, according to a new poll."

Joe Biden and Bill Clinton were accused by specific named women, but liberal voters stayed on side. Evidently, being skeptical of such accusations is not remotely unique to the conservative mindset.

 

[dirtywick]

Joe Biden and Bill Clinton were accused by specific named women, but liberal voters stayed on side. Evidently, being skeptical of such accusations is not remotely unique to the conservative mindset.

i said it’s not much of a factor for the conservative mindset, not that it was unique.

anyway i think if i was you i’d need something more recent than bill clinton to support such a statement

 

[Cain]

I wrote: You do not need to tell me that Republicans think they're better advocates.

Well...at least it would be topical.

Painfully stupid. The sub-topic in the thread has shifted to the political parties. You do not need to announce that Republicans think they're better on the mistreatment of women because everyone already knows that this is what Republicans are inclined to believe. You never did answer the point blank question: "Do you think the Republican coalition is clearly a better advocate for women suffering from mistreatment?"

I've not claimed to have a "conservative mindset" since the Reagan Era, so it's hard for me to say why you think my opinions are on point here.

This is another evasion.

It doesn't make too much sense to reframe a thread from NZ in terms of American political parties.

1) I suggest you re-read the original post; 2) It's where the discussion you interjected yourself into has gone.

 

[d4m10n]

The sub-topic in the thread has shifted to the political parties.

I've no interest in discussing political parties in a social issues thread.

Happy to discuss the conservative mindset towards women, though.

 

[d4m10n]

i’d need something more recent than bill clinton to support such a statement

Look again.

 

[ahhell]

I reject the notion that MAGA is conservative. Right wing and radical but not conservative. There was nothing conservative about DOGE, the US owning parts of a number of corporations, Tariffs.... Radical cannot be conservative by its nature.

Same problem as the liberal mindset thread, we've miss defined the terms and there wasn't ever any good faith effort to understand anything.

ETA: Aside from that, politics and voting patterns in the US are much better explained by partisanship and tribalism than any kind of ideological mindset. The mindset of most voters is, "they are on my team therefore I will vote for them and agree with them."

 

[dirtywick]

Look again.

oh you’re talking about biden? i see that now. problem with that one too is that he was running against a guy with an even worse and corroborated history of sexual abuse so i don’t think that’s a very good example either being as how there was no non sexual abuser choice.

not that it matters as i said in the part of the quote you cut out.

but, even so, what are your thoughts on the reaction to platner vs miller

 

[d4m10n]

problem with that one too is that he was running against a guy with an even worse and corroborated history of sexual abuse so i don’t think that’s a very good example either being as how there was no non sexual abuser choice.

My point is that if we wanted to claim that voters ignoring allegations of sexual abuse are somehow unique to the "conservative mindset" then you have to overlook 2020, when there was "no non sexual abuser choice" (if you are unskeptical of allegations in the spirit of #BelieveWomen) and we still witnessed the largest raw vote totals of all time.

what are your thoughts on the reaction to platner vs miller

Part of the conservative mindset, in my view, is the idea of the man as head of the family and the family as an indivisible and indispensable unit of society, and the idea that neither the family nor the broader society will function well without strong male leadership. I probably don't need to spell out why this makes conservatives more tolerant of tyrannical men who prefer power over persuasion.

Put another way, Platner was going against the grain of progressive ideals of relations between the two sexes while Miller was going along with grain of conservative thinking on the matter, albeit going much too far.

 

[dirtywick]

My point is that if we wanted to claim that voters ignoring allegations of sexual abuse are somehow unique to the "conservative mindset" then you have to overlook 2020, when there was "no non sexual abuser choice" (if you are unskeptical of allegations in the spirit of #BelieveWomen) and we still witnessed the largest raw vote totals of all time.

Part of the conservative mindset, in my view, is the idea of the man as head of the family and the family as an indivisible and indispensable unit of society, and the idea that neither the family nor the broader society will function well without strong male leadership. I probably don't need to spell out why this makes conservatives more tolerant of tyrannical men who prefer power over persuasion.

i’m not making the claim that it’s unique

Put another way, Platner was going against the grain of progressive ideals of relations between the two sexes while Miller was going along with grain of conservative thinking on the matter, albeit going much too far.

do you think that mindset creates an environment in which conservatives are more comfortable ignoring sexual misconduct in their leadership?

 

[dirtywick]

Client Challenge

interesting story here about a republican primary in michigan where a dropped out of the race a month ago tom smith beats out a heavily endorsed amir hassan

How the candidates' names may have played a role in the primary
The consensus among many is that the Republican primary election came down to the sounds of the candidates’ names.

Kyle Melinn, editor and publisher at Michigan Information & Research Service Inc., said he believed voters' comfort with Smith’s name was the ultimate reason for his victory.
“There's just no other way to look at it,” Melinn said. “I mean, they were comfortable with that name, and they were not comfortable with the name Amir Hassan.”

oh, that’s racist! you might say. or islamophobic. well, no

Melinn stressed he didn’t believe voters were motivated by racism or Islamophobia.
“I wouldn't go that far,” Melinn said. “I would just say it's a comfort level thing, and that's really what it comes down to.”

oh ok

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Avoidance of Discomfort might be a very central part of the Conservative Mindset.
And of Uncertainty.

 

[dirtywick]

I reject the notion that MAGA is conservative. Right wing and radical but not conservative. There was nothing conservative about DOGE, the US owning parts of a number of corporations, Tariffs.... Radical cannot be conservative by its nature.

what do you say to all the years of the strong conservative support maga enjoyed? they didn’t like the man, but they liked the policies after all. it’s still something you hear pretty frequently

 

[ahhell]

what do you say to all the years of the strong conservative support maga enjoyed? they didn’t like the man, but they liked the policies after all. it’s still something you hear pretty frequently

As I said either here or elsewhere, you can't really understand US voting patterns based on ideology, it's all tribalism and partisanship and various cognitive biases.

 

[dirtywick]

As I said either here or elsewhere, you can't really understand US voting patterns based on ideology, it's all tribalism and partisanship and various cognitive biases.

isn't conservativism the common basis for the tribe, party, and biases though?