Understanding False Flag operations

[Norman Alexander]

I need to preface this by stating that I love Australia. Never been there, but I love just about everything they have and do down there. Bee Gees, AC/DC, Russel Crowe,and I can go on for days about all of the cool animals, especially their snake population.

Plus, they have some hot, uppity women.

So yes, I love Australia.

That said, Australia does not compare well with the United States on any level. The US is wide open while Australia is insular. Australia picks and chooses who can move there to live, and for how long. It used to be four years maximum and then you were put on a plane back to your country or origin. The resulting condition of this is that Australians, for the most part, tend to be on the same page for important issues, stemming from solid integration, and quality education that the US seems to have given up on decades ago.

The other factor that must be accounted for is the population difference. Australia's population is just over 22,751,014 (July 2015 est.)*, so call it 28 million. The population of the United States is 321,368,864 (July 2015 est.)*, or 321 million.

This means that it's much easier to get things done in Australia than it is in the US. There are more people living in my state of California (38.8 million) than in Australia, and our state is a mess.

The other issue with numbers is that when the Australians looked at banning guns they weren't looking at over 300,000,000 of them, which is the estimated number in private ownership in the US, 20-30 million of those are assault riffles.

There aren't enough cops, Federal Law Enforcement, or even soldiers and Marines to take them all if it came to it...and it will never happen that way precisely because the citizenry has the government outgunned.

Simple math explains why the concept of mass shootings as false flag operations is just flat-out stupid. Our gun problem will change when minds are changed, and they can change here when given time.

*source: CIA World Factbook*

The obligatory "g'day" and thanks for the rap. May I just correct a few points?

Australia actually has much the same openness as the USA. The 4-year thing you mentioned is just one work visa type. There are dozens of others with varying conditions. We also have our share of "illegals", people who come, live and work here without visas.

We are not a disarmed society. People do own guns here, perfectly legally. Our police are armed. We have many active gun clubs and professional hunters. We also have bikie and drug gangs with assorted sawn-off and handgun accouterments. So the idea that we are "gun-free" is a nonsense.

The major differences you have not noted are two: We do not have that streak of violence that seems to pervade US society, and we do not have any constitutional gun rights.

This thing about violence seems to underly so much of US confrontations. Rights activists and protests are met not with negotiation first but with brute force. Here, it rarely gets to that level. We usually solve our problems, and we do have them, before they get to confrontation. Success-rate is not 100% but we try.

Not having gun-rights means guns are treated the same as any other dangerous "machine". There are rules set in law, and licenses and restrictions apply. To own a gun so is essentially a privilege, much the same as earning a driving license, with responsibilities set out and heavy penalties involved. This is why the gun buy-back scheme in 1996 was quite successful. It was a matter of responsibility.

Lastly, our governments and intelligence communities are usually so clumsy that the notion that they have the capability and finesse to pull off False Flag operations 100% successfully and undetected is simply hilarious. Some of our pollies can barely go to the bathroom unaided.

Finally, we have a pretty healthy dose of skepticism if not outright cynicism. So ridiculous notions like False Flag operations are met with a rather wry smile if not a chuckle and some pithy sarcasm.

 

[BStrong]

As hard as this might to believe for the adherents of "There's a False Flag under my bed!" pov, the most common activity that falls under the false flag rubric is law enforcement undercover operations.

In the intel world, the most common FF operation isn't what they believe either.

IRL, some potential source that has a known favorable inclination towards foreign country A is approached by agents of foreign country B. Agents of country B represent themselves as agents of country A as an approached to suborning the individual in question to sharing information or committing other acts on their behalf under the belief they are in fact assisting country A.

 

[Bubba]

Thank for illustrating the epistemological pathology of conspiracism. Tell us what you think. Was it that the NWO just couldn't find any "patsy" except for Omar Mateen, so had to "sacrifice its own"? (This is assuming you believe the murders really happened, which most conspiracists seem to deny.)

Understand this (and relieve yourself of assumptions, if those are assumptions about my position)

a) I did not say Orlando was a FF. Earlier I said I dont know that any (mass shootings)are false flags.

b) Where I said 'the nwo would sacrifice its own' I was merely speculating generally about what "evil" might do. I dont even know if "evil" is a 'thing' on its own.....but sometimes it seems so.

 

[HotRodDeluxe]

The same internet says there were 6 other mass shootings there in the 5 years preceding......they did not influence the legislation?

There were fifteen mass shootings between 1981 and 1996. The nation had enough of this crap and largely agreed with the conservative government of the time regarding controls. Sure, the rural sector were against it, but we simply do not need semi-automatic weapons to control vermin, and there was no wholesale confiscation as suggested, but a buy-back scheme. We do not have the belief that owning guns is a 'right'. To the average Australian, that is an absurd notion, and we do not have the culture of using guns to solve disputes. That is seen as 'cowardice' to the average Australian (that is, if one needs to resort to a gun, one can't be much of a man, etc.).

Handguns and rifles require a licence and need to be stored in a safe. Auto's and semi-auto's are illegal. Having said all that, the statistics show that there are now more guns in circulation than prior to the buy-back.

Please try to be sceptical when reading or listening to NRA propaganda, as they lie about Australia constantly, and you have carried on about propaganda in this thread while falling for it yourself.

One thing I do remember about the buy-back, is that no-one carried on about 'false flags' or anything as equally stupid. It just made sense to Australians as a whole, but then, we don't really have that conspiracy theorist culture that appears to be more prevalent in the US.

It is worthy of note that there hasn't been a mass shooting since the buy-back (no, Monash is NOT a mass shooting), and that is a point that the NRA DON'T want you to know.

I'm far more concerned about the legislation to limit the activities of MC's, as law enforcement will abuse it to persecute other groups.

 

[jaydeehess]

As you wish.

Makes a good example of FFA, nonetheless.

It's a good example even though you characterized it completely wrong.......

Hmmmmm.

 

[BStrong]

It's a good example even though you characterized it completely wrong.......

Hmmmmm.

The game being played only looks like Capture The Flag.

 

[Bubba]

There were fifteen mass shootings between 1981 and 1996. The nation had enough of this crap and largely agreed with the conservative government of the time regarding controls. Sure, the rural sector were against it, but we simply do not need semi-automatic weapons to control vermin, and there was no wholesale confiscation as suggested, but a buy-back scheme. We do not have the belief that owning guns is a 'right'. To the average Australian, that is an absurd notion, and we do not have the culture of using guns to solve disputes. That is seen as 'cowardice' to the average Australian (that is, if one needs to resort to a gun, one can't be much of a man, etc.).

Handguns and rifles require a licence and need to be stored in a safe. Auto's and semi-auto's are illegal. Having said all that, the statistics show that there are now more guns in circulation than prior to the buy-back.

Please try to be sceptical when reading or listening to NRA propaganda, as they lie about Australia constantly, and you have carried on about propaganda in this thread while falling for it yourself.

One thing I do remember about the buy-back, is that no-one carried on about 'false flags' or anything as equally stupid. It just made sense to Australians as a whole, but then, we don't really have that conspiracy theorist culture that appears to be more prevalent in the US.

It is worthy of note that there hasn't been a mass shooting since the buy-back (no, Monash is NOT a mass shooting), and that is a point that the NRA DON'T want you to know.
I'm far more concerned about the legislation to limit the activities of MC's, as law enforcement will abuse it to persecute other groups.

It seems only practical that False Flag theorists could then say....Now that 'they' achieved the buy-back, the false flagged mass shootings are no longer useful.

 

[fagin]

I need to preface this by stating that I love Australia. Never been there, but I love just about everything they have and do down there. Bee Gees, AC/DC, Russel Crowe,and I can go on for days about all of the cool animals, especially their snake population...

Just to be pedantic, the BeeGees were born in the UK and lived in Manchester, Angus and Malcolm Young were from Scotland originally, and Russel Crowe is a Kiwi.

Australia however does have snakes, Dame Edna Everage and Rolf Harris.

It's a very scary place.

 

[Bubba]

None of which can be considered mind control. We are surrounded by bias and persuasive linguistic techniques constantly, but this is not mind control. Understanding persuasive linguistic techniques is not hard, and the average person can identify them when employed-just note most advertising for example.

Do you rush off to buy every thing, or service you see advertised? No.
Propaganda is everywhere, and at all levels, but no individual, or collective is being manipulated via direct mind control. If individuals or groups respond favourably to propaganda, it merely denotes that the piece reflects that individual's or group's belief system.

Apples and oranges?


Even those still swallowing TVnews as reporting know (or believe) there is supposed to be a difference between commercial advertising and reporting world events.

TVnewsWorld today is too much a govt mouthpiece, may as well be official propaganda outlet.


Indoctrination is one type of mind control, according to some dictionaries.

 

[jaydeehess]

Apples and oranges?


Even those still swallowing TVnews as reporting know (or believe) there is supposed to be a difference between commercial advertising and reporting world events.

TVnewsWorld today is too much a govt mouthpiece, may as well be official propaganda outlet.


Indoctrination is one type of mind control, according to some dictionaries.

Fox News, MSNBC, Canadian Broadcasting Coporation, BBC News, Pravda are working at the same purpose?? Who'd thunk it, thanks Bubba

 

[LSSBB]

Apples and oranges?


Even those still swallowing TVnews as reporting know (or believe) there is supposed to be a difference between commercial advertising and reporting world events.

TVnewsWorld today is too much a govt mouthpiece, may as well be official propaganda outlet.


Indoctrination is one type of mind control, according to some dictionaries.

Funny kind of mind control that many folks just don't even pay attention to and gives you all sorts of conflicting stories. It's almost as if television is actually just a product to attract attention and sell soap. If it's run by the government, show me the money trail, unveil those manipulating government agents. Or are you all hat and no cattle?

 

[Bubba]

Funny kind of mind control that many folks just don't even pay attention to and gives you all sorts of conflicting stories. It's almost as if television is actually just a product to attract attention and sell soap. If it's run by the government, show me the money trail, unveil those manipulating government agents. Or are you all hat and no cattle?

Sorry, to say 'the owners' would probably be more accurate than 'the govt'.


IMO George Carlin says it well enough.

 

[LSSBB]

Sorry, to say 'the owners' would probably be more accurate than 'the govt'.


IMO George Carlin says it well enough.

George Carlin is funny and all, however I think you'd be better served watching the movie Network.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Here's all you need to know about false flags, in a simple flowchart.

Dave

 

[HotRodDeluxe]

It seems only practical that False Flag theorists could then say....Now that 'they' achieved the buy-back, the false flagged mass shootings are no longer useful.

Yes, but that would be pure conjecture without a shred of evidence in support, therefore easily dismissed without further comment. The false flag notion is not only a erroneous description of a remote possibility, it is also ridiculous.

Tell me how the Hoddle St. Massacre could be construed as a false flag. How did 'da gubmint' employ MC's to co-operate in such a bizarre and stupid plan that would directly affect themselves?

THINK.

 

[HotRodDeluxe]

Apples and oranges?


Even those still swallowing TVnews as reporting know (or believe) there is supposed to be a difference between commercial advertising and reporting world events.

Obviously, you completely missed my point. Please try at least to understand the employment of persuasive language that is applicable to both. Ok? Do you even comprehend what I'm talking about?

TVnewsWorld today is too much a govt mouthpiece, may as well be official propaganda outlet.

Study media ownership and how the bias filters down, for it is real. Your causation is specious.

Indoctrination is one type of mind control, according to some dictionaries.

I doubt that, and most people are smart enough to identify the use of persuasive linguistic techniques.

 

[Bubba]

Yes, but that would be pure conjecture without a shred of evidence in support, therefore easily dismissed without further comment. The false flag notion is not only a erroneous description of a remote possibility, it is also ridiculous.

Yes for lack of a better term, "False Flag" is the term being erroneously used lately. Its not ridiculous at all. A hot microphone caught a state government official suggesting "send in some troublemakers" to a protest which was peaceful. Thats the same type of tactic, erroneous terms aside.

Tell me how the Hoddle St. Massacre could be construed as a false flag. How did 'da gubmint' employ MC's to co-operate in such a bizarre and stupid plan that would directly affect themselves?

THINK

Would you be (I am not) so unthinking as to assume all similar incidents need be related because they resemble each other?

No, you would not.

(the scenario is only theoretical anyway)

I am not saying any incident is a FF in reality....I am merely conducting a 'thought exercise' about this topic, not taking a position.

In the model I look at 'da gubmint' is not even involved. That would be overly simplified IMO. Inserting the concept is problematic and counterproductive. Thats why I corrected myself earlier for not being more specific when I said 'the govt'

 

[HotRodDeluxe]

Yes for lack of a better term, "False Flag" is the term being erroneously used lately. Its not ridiculous at all. A hot microphone caught a state government official suggesting "send in some troublemakers" to a protest which was peaceful. Thats the same type of tactic, erroneous terms aside.

In the scenario I'm discussing, and in light of the complete absence of evidence it is absurd. Please try to stay focussed. We were discussing Australia's gun legislation.

Would you be (I am not) so unthinking as to assume all similar incidents need be related because they resemble each other?

No, you would not.

(the scenario is only theoretical anyway)

No, but if you knew the history we are supposed to be discussing, you would realise that your hypothetical is absurd. I asked a relevant question, and I could ask you many more pertaining to the other shootings that lewd up to the legislation. Remember, Australia has a totally different mindset regarding firearms.

I am not saying any incident is a FF in reality....I am merely conducting a 'thought exercise' about this topic, not taking a position.

Well, now that's convenient. A 'thought' exercise...how cute. So you don't seem to understand the concepts under discussion (e.g. media studies and the techniques employed by copy writers or journalists), and you call it a thought exercise?

In the model I look at 'da gubmint' is not even involved. That would be overly simplified IMO. Inserting the concept is problematic and counterproductive. Thats why I corrected myself earlier for not being more specific when I said 'the govt'

This has absolutely nothing to do with my point. Insert 'nefarious unknown entity' if you like, it makes absolutely no difference.

 

[Bubba]

In the scenario I'm discussing, and in light of the complete absence of evidence it is absurd. Please try to stay focussed. We were discussing Australia's gun legislation.



No, but if you knew the history we are supposed to be discussing, you would realise that your hypothetical is absurd. I asked a relevant question, and I could ask you many more pertaining to the other shootings that lewd up to the legislation. Remember, Australia has a totally different mindset regarding firearms.




Well, now that's convenient. A 'thought' exercise...how cute. So you don't seem to understand the concepts under discussion (e.g. media studies and the techniques employed by copy writers or journalists), and you call it a thought exercise?


This has absolutely nothing to do with my point. Insert 'nefarious unknown entity' if you like, it makes absolutely no difference.

 

[HotRodDeluxe]

So, you don't understand my posts? I thought so. Oh, well....maybe next time you'll get it.