Uncensored Gore

[Tony]

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/03/52/features-cooper.php ..full article

It's lucky for George W. Bush that he wasn’t born in an earlier time and somehow stumbled into America’s Constitutional Convention. A man with his views, so depreciative of democratic rule, would have certainly been quickly exiled from the freshly liberated United States by the gaggle of incensed Founders. So muses one of our most controversial social critics and prolific writers, Gore Vidal.

This guy is a wacko, but there are a few things he said which stand out as exceptionally stupid.

Questionpeaking of elections, is George W. Bush going to be re-elected next year?

AnswerNo. At least if there is a fair election, an election that is not electronic. That would be dangerous. We don’t want an election without a paper trail. The makers of the voting machines say no one can look inside of them, because they would reveal trade secrets. What secrets? Isn’t their job to count votes? Or do they get secret messages from Mars? Is the cure for cancer inside the machines? I mean, come on. And all three owners of the companies who make these machines are donors to the Bush administration. Is this not corruption?

So Bush will probably win if the country is covered with these balloting machines. He can’t lose.

Tin-foil hat time.

I think of them as an alien army. They have managed to take over everything, and quite in the open. We have a deranged president. We have despotism. We have no due process.

I think you're the detranged one Mr. Vidal. I see you're heavy on the platitudes, but light on the evidence.

think we will go down the tubes right with it [Iraq]. With each action Bush ever more enrages the Muslims. And there are a billion of them. And sooner or later they will have a Saladin who will pull them together, and they will come after us. And it won’t be pretty.

Where were you on Sept. 11th dumba$s? Probably at a party celebrating the glorious event. The islamists are already coming after us.

 

[Tricky]

Any particular reason why you chose your thread topic to suggest Al Gore rather than Gore Vidal? Vidal is an outspoken liberal who is quite controversial. Al Gore, by contrast is pretty moderate and is only controversial because Republicans hate him.

Surely you don't mean to suggest that when you say "Gore" we would think "Vidal". This sort of misdirection is disingenious, to say the least. I expect more honesty of you.

 

[Tony]

Any particular reason why you chose your thread topic to suggest Al Gore rather than Gore Vidal? Vidal is an outspoken liberal who is quite controversial. Al Gore, by contrast is pretty moderate and is only controversial because Republicans hate him.

This sort of misdirection is disingenious, to say the least. I expect more honesty of you.

Dude!! Click on the link and look at the title of the article. I expect an apology.

 

[Tricky]

Dude!! Look click on the link and look at the title of the article. I expect an apology.

I know what you meant as soon as I read the thread. I am talking about your thread title. Nobody calls Gore Vidal "Gore". You deliberately intended this to be a slam against Al Gore. It was a cheap trick, not worthy of you.

 

[Tony]

I know what you meant as soon as I read the thread. I am talking about your thread title. Nobody calls Gore Vidal "Gore". You deliberately intended this to be a slam against Al Gore. It was a cheap trick, not worthy of you.

There is no trick, I chose the title of the thread because it is the title of the article. That's all, there was no evil plan.


And I wouldnt' exactly call Vidal liberal. Like most "liberals", he is a left-wing authoritarian.

 

[a_unique_person]

Gore Vidal is a very intelligent and knowledgable man. He knows more than you ever will about the world and it's history. You have not the faintest clue about him, have you?

I would suggest you get one, or more, of his novels and read it/them. They are works of genius, for the most part. You might learn a thing or two.

I work in the computing industry. The election machines are very scary. I know how easy it is to have security breaches and bugs. These guys propose to have such a system, without any 'audit trail'. Not tin foil hat time, but common sense time.

The lack of due process for the war in Iraq has been noted by many. The process that has been followed is one with no regard for law. It is common knowledge that the war was going to happen either way, either with or without UN backing. And look where it got him.

 

[Cain]

Oh my...

And I wouldnt' exactly call Vidal liberal. Like most "liberals", he is a left-wing authoritarian.

What do you base that on? Or did you solicit his opinion on toilet bowls?

Here's something worth repeating:

Gore Vidal is a very intelligent and knowledgable man. He knows more than you ever will about the world and it's history. You have not the faintest clue about him, have you?

By the way, I think Vidal is a second or third cousin of Al Gore. He also left America to live in Italy (before Sept. 11).

 

[Tony]

Oh my...

What do you base that on? Or did you solicit his opinion on toilet bowls?

People of his (and your) ilk fit this classification much more than "liberal.” Feel free to prove me wrong, what are his positions on taxes, gun rights, free speech, government intrusion, and individual rights?

Is he like most so-called "liberals" who tend to condemn the tyrants they disagree with while ignoring the ones with which they agree?

 

[Tony]

I would suggest you get one, or more, of his novels and read it/them. They are works of genius, for the most part. You might learn a thing or two.

I just might, what books has he written?

I work in the computing industry. The election machines are very scary.

I agree, but I doubt Vidal would be condemning these machines this much is someone he liked was in office.

The lack of due process for the war in Iraq has been noted by many. The process that has been followed is one with no regard for law. It is common knowledge that the war was going to happen either way, either with or without UN backing.

Pull your head out of your a$s; "due process" and the UN's inept policies were the status quo for 12 years. Due process was followed, you just ignore it.

 

[Cain]

People of his (and your) ilk fit this classification much more than "liberal.” Feel free to prove me wrong, what are his positions on taxes, gun rights, free speech, government intrusion, and individual rights?

Don't you know??? After all, you're the one calling him an "authoritarian."

Is he like most so-called "liberals" who tend to condemn the tyrants they disagree with while ignoring the ones with which they agree?

Again, you have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about. Just stop.

 

[Frank Newgent]

Thanks for the link, Tony. Have always enjoyed reading a little Gore Vidal.

We are talking about despotism. I have read not only the first PATRIOT Act but also the second one, which has not yet been totally made public nor approved by Congress and to which there is already great resistance. An American citizen can be fingered as a terrorist, and with what proof? No proof. All you need is the word of the attorney general or maybe the president himself. You can then be locked up without access to a lawyer, and then tried by military tribunal and even executed. Or, in a brand-new wrinkle, you can be exiled, stripped of your citizenship and packed off to another place not even organized as a country — like Tierra del Fuego or some rock in the Pacific. All of this is in the USA PATRIOT Act. The Founding Fathers would have found this to be despotism in spades. And they would have hanged anybody who tried to get this through the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia. Hanged.

Hanged. Easier than a well-placed gunshot at the height of rush hour...

 

[Luke T.]

Nobody calls Gore Vidal "Gore".

The writer of the linked article did.

Uncensored Gore
The take-no-prisoners social critic skewers Bush, Ashcroft and the whole damn lot of us for letting despots rule.
by Marc Cooper

 

[Tony]

Don't you know??? After all, you're the one calling him an "authoritarian."



Again, you have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about. Just stop.

Do you know what this------> ? is?

 

[Matabiri]

I work in the computing industry. The election machines are very scary.

I agree, but I doubt Vidal would be condemning these machines this much is someone he liked was in office.

Problems with voting machines:
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,60713,00.html

"Officials leave voting machines at polling stations days before the election. The machines contain memory cards with ballots already loaded on them. This means before the election, someone could alter the ballot file in such a way that voters would cast votes for the wrong candidate without knowing it.

The memory card rests behind a locked door on the side of the voting machine. But supervisors receive a key to the compartment the weekend before the election. The same key fits every machine at a polling station.

Poll supervisors are selected with no background checks and are given keys to buildings where they can access the machines several days before the election.

The machines, worth around $3,000 each, are locked on a trolley at polling stations with only a bicycle lock. The combination, which anyone could crack in a couple of tries, is the same for every polling station in the county and is given to poll supervisors during their training.

Although the machines have two blue tamper-resistant ties threaded through holes in their carrying cases, the ties can easily be purchased on the Internet. Supervisors open at least one case the night before the election to charge the machine inside, which means the case remains unsealed overnight."

And that's before you get to the software etc.

 

[Luke T.]

Thanks for the link, Tony. Have always enjoyed reading a little Gore Vidal.

"We are talking about despotism. I have read not only the first PATRIOT Act but also the second one, which has not yet been totally made public nor approved by Congress and to which there is already great resistance. An American citizen can be fingered as a terrorist, and with what proof? No proof. All you need is the word of the attorney general or maybe the president himself. You can then be locked up without access to a lawyer, and then tried by military tribunal and even executed. Or, in a brand-new wrinkle, you can be exiled, stripped of your citizenship and packed off to another place not even organized as a country — like Tierra del Fuego or some rock in the Pacific. All of this is in the USA PATRIOT Act. The Founding Fathers would have found this to be despotism in spades. And they would have hanged anybody who tried to get this through the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia. Hanged."


Hanged. Easier than a well-placed gunshot at the height of rush hour...

I'll wait and see what this sooper-secret-nobody-knows-about-it-but-me USA PATRIORT act says for myself before I jump to any conclusions about hanging anyone, thanks Gore.

 

[Frank Newgent]

Feel free to prove me wrong, what are his positions on taxes, gun rights, free speech, government intrusion, and individual rights?

Think whatever you do, Tony. I don't care. But reading a link from the interview you posted (to an interview last year with Gore Vidal) I found this.

But the American people, yes, they instinctively know when the government goes off the rails like it did at Waco and Ruby Ridge. No one has been elected president in the last 50 years unless he ran against the federal government. So, the government should get through its head that it is hated not only by foreigners whose countries we have wrecked, but also by Americans whose lives have been wrecked.

Not that this has anything to do with your question, but I thought you'd probably like the first sentence here, at least...

And the liberals, of course, are the slowest and the stupidest, because they do not understand their interests. The right wing are the bad guys, but they know what they want -- everybody else's money. And they know they don't like blacks and they don't like minorities. And they like to screw everyone along the way.

 

[Tony]

Think whatever you do, Tony. I don't care. But reading a link from the interview you posted (to an interview last year with Gore Vidal) I found this.


Not that this has anything to do with your question, but I thought you'd probably like the first sentence here, at least...

Thanks Frank, I found this especially interesting.

But the American people, yes, they instinctively know when the government goes off the rails like it did at Waco and Ruby Ridge. No one has been elected president in the last 50 years unless he ran against the federal government. So, the government should get through its head that it is hated not only by foreigners whose countries we have wrecked, but also by Americans whose lives have been wrecked.

I’m sorry if I pre-judged this guy, but I am extremely skeptical of any political loudmouth. Most have turned out to be hypocrites.


However, I think this is an over simplification.

And the liberals, of course, are the slowest and the stupidest, because they do not understand their interests. The right wing are the bad guys, but they know what they want -- everybody else's money. And they know they don't like blacks and they don't like minorities. And they like to screw everyone along the way.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
I would suggest you get one, or more, of his novels and read it/them. They are works of genius, for the most part. You might learn a thing or two.

Originally posted by Tony
I just might, what books has he written?

Oh my.

 

[a_unique_person]

I just might, what books has he written?

Washington, D.C. Burr, Lincoln, Creation, 1876, Messiah. He has written numerous books, but I found his 'history' of the US to be enthralling, and so mainly stuck to that. Washington DC is relatively small, but very readable. It is his take on the Kennedy Clan.

I work in the computing industry. The election machines are very scary.

I agree, but I doubt Vidal would be condemning these machines this much is someone he liked was in office.

He is no fan of the Democrats, either.

 

[Cain]

Do you know what this------> ? is?

You're rather slow, aren't you?

Check this out: "And I wouldnt' exactly call Vidal liberal. Like most "liberals", he is a left-wing authoritarian."

And yet, you have no idea of his positions. Now you're pointing to question marks. This stuff makes me apoplectic. I might as well spend this time productively arguing with post-modernists... or watching paint dry.

Edited to add: Yes, Marc Cooper refers to Gore Vidal as "Gore" in the interview. That's probably because they're friends, in spite of the fact, I suppose, that Cooper regularly grovels before power. It's a misleading title, but nothing worth arguing over to a great extent. Few people on this board should be expected to know Tony was referring to Vidal. Besides, who uses first names? If it said "Al Uncensored" there would be ambiguity between Franken and Gore (two well known names here). But since Tony knows Jack-Diddly ◊◊◊◊ about Vidal, it's all rather dervivative, isn't it?