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UK Local Elections

Rolfe said:
Exactly. It's a peculiar feature of British discourse that only supporters of independence are held to be guilty of "nationalism". The union-flag-draped jackbooted bigotry on the other side somehow isn't.

I mean I've seen tweets aimed at someone making a rational economic case for an independent Scotland which said "you can't eat a flag", from accounts whose profiles are draped in the Butcher's Apron with a few poppies for good measure. And they weren't being ironic.
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I prefer nationalists to their other preference of separatist. Usually flung around by people who would happily tow the UK into the North Atlantic to be further from Europe
 
The Don said:
Tbh, I think that's a pretty typical stance taken against pro-independence groups.

Someone who is a Spanish hyper-nationalist is patriotic but someone who is pro Catalan, Basque, Navarra independence would be a dangerous nationalist.

Likewise Canada/Quebec, USA/Confederacy, Russia/Chechnya and so on IMO.
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I guess you're probably right. It just feels weird to be making a reasoned case for your country to become a peaceful medium-sized northern European democracy like Denmark or Finland to be met with foul-mouthed screams about "the dark side of blood-and-soil nationalism" and the evils of flags, coming from people who drape themselves in the butcher's apron and carry on about the wonders of "Great" Britain punching above its weight.

Archie Gemmill Goal said:
I prefer nationalists to their other preference of separatist. Usually flung around by people who would happily tow the UK into the North Atlantic to be further from Europe
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Agreed.
 
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The Don said:
Why would anyone vote UKIP these days ? With their diamond-hard Brexit approach and right wing leanings, the Tories are rapidly becoming UKIP.
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Those guys are probably still voting UKIP to keep the pressure on the Tories to move farther rightwards.

bluesjnr said:
I'd like to know why you haven't included Glasgow Celtic FC alongside the reprehensible Rangers FC in your list?
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I think it's because people only think of three things when they refer to an "axis of evil".
 
Wildy said:
Those guys are probably still voting UKIP to keep the pressure on the Tories to move farther rightwards.



I think it's because people only think of three things when they refer to an "axis of evil".
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I'm not sure how much more right the Tories could get now short of rounding people up into camps. But hell they are pretty much in favour of that too when it comes to refugees.
 
Funny, I thought we had a thread on Scottish independence already.

What you lot who keep on talking about it in every thread are doing is annoying, particularly for me as I really badly want to be able to stay away from such conversation because of the apoplexy my very presence induces in 2 or 3 Scottish posters. Could you please take your Scottish independence conversations over to the Indyref thread, and leave it out of the other UK politics threads. That would be much appreciated, thanks.
 
MikeG said:
Funny, I thought we had a thread on Scottish independence already.

What you lot who keep on talking about it in every thread are doing is annoying, particularly for me as I really badly want to be able to stay away from such conversation because of the apoplexy my very presence induces in 2 or 3 Scottish posters. Could you please take your Scottish independence conversations over to the Indyref thread, and leave it out of the other UK politics threads. That would be much appreciated, thanks.
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The main, almost only, issue raised by the Conservatives as local political party in Scotland was independence (they're agin it) so it is a relevant issue in this thread too. But nothing requires you to discuss this aspect of these elections here. As to the "apoplexy" caused by your very presence; your Scottish interlocutors will just have to bear it.
 
The sole campaigning point of both Conservative and Labour in the local elections in Scotland was NO SECOND REFERENDUM. The sole topic of the post election commentary has been the implications of the result for the constitutional question.

Sorry you find this annoying. I find it quite annoying too actually, but it's the way it is.
 
Rolfe said:
The sole campaigning point of both Conservative and Labour in the local elections in Scotland was NO SECOND REFERENDUM. The sole topic of the post election commentary has been the implications of the result for the constitutional question.

Sorry you find this annoying. I find it quite annoying too actually, but it's the way it is.
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I don't find it annoying at all. In fact, I haven't commented on any of that. The only thing I find annoying is that people want to have that conversation in this thread.

Look what happens to your blood pressure if I were to comment on any of these matters. I would simply suggest that Scottish independence questions be discussed in the Scottish independence thread. That hardly seems controversial.
 
MikeG said:
I don't find it annoying at all. In fact, I haven't commented on any of that. The only thing I find annoying is that people want to have that conversation in this thread.

Look what happens to your blood pressure if I were to comment on any of these matters. I would simply suggest that Scottish independence questions be discussed in the Scottish independence thread. That hardly seems controversial.
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How about the main Scottish campaign issue in the local elections being discussed in the UK local elections thread? That's not controversial either. I will see to my own blood pressure if need be.
 
Exactly. The main campaign issue in the Scottish council elections was independence. Made so not by the SNP, who actually tried to campaign on local issues, but by the unionist parties. The result's significance was mainly constitutional, with the Labour unionist vote having defected en masse to the Conservatives, leading to a massive swing to the Conserrvatives as the SNP sailed on slightly increasing its vote.

This is being spun as a massive victory for the Tories, in spite of them actually languishing in a pretty poor second place. This is all about the local elections and it's all the local elections are about. Scotland is still part of the UK and you seem to want to keep it that way Mike. So you can hardly complain when the most pertinent issues of the local election campaign in Scotland are discussed in the thread about the UK local elections.

These are the people who have just managed to get themselves elected as (both Conservative and Labour) councillors in parts of Scotland. It's kind of relevant you know.

https://twitter.com/Cuphook801/status/861191125058686976
 
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Rolfe said:
Exactly. The main campaign issue in the Scottish council elections was independence. Made so not by the SNP, who actually tried to campaign on local issues, but by the unionist parties. The result's significance was mainly constitutional, with the Labour unionist vote having defected en masse to the Conservatives, leading to a massive swing to the Conserrvatives as the SNP sailed on slightly increasing its vote.

This is being spun as a massive victory for the Tories, in spite of them actually languishing in a pretty poor second place. This is all about the local elections and it's all the local elections are about. Scotland is still part of the UK and you seem to want to keep it that way Mike. So you can hardly complain when the most pertinent issues of the local election campaign in Scotland are discussed in the thread about the UK local elections.

These are the people who have just managed to get themselves elected as (both Conservative and Labour) councillors in parts of Scotland. It's kind of relevant you know.

https://twitter.com/Cuphook801/status/861191125058686976
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Stop doing this Rolfe. You have no evidence for this whatever. I absolutely categorically point blank refuse to be drawn into arguing over Scotland. You see how poisonous the combination of your pet subject and my presence is? All I have to do is ask that Scottish independence be discussed in the Scottish Independence thread so that I can avoid getting involved in an argument, and it generates hostility and paragraphs full of assumptions.

You may recall that some while back I asked extremely politely about Scottish reaction to XY or Z, in an utterly neutral way. The result was negative, hostile, defensive, aggressive, and, in terms "people like you have no right to ask". All I want to do is completely avoid that situation arising again. I'm not looking to curtail your conversations in the slightest. I am simply trying not to be the catalyst, and the focus of your ire. I want to avoid the subject altogether, for the sake of avoiding the arguments. It wouldn't kill you to post Scottish Independence matters in the Indyref thread, and I'll assume motive if you (collective you) decide that this isn't what you want to do.
 
You seem to want to limit the discussion in this thread only to those aspects of the UK local council elections that you personally want to talk about. It doesn't work like that. The local elections in Scotland were utterly dominated by the constitutional question and this aspect of these elections is entirely relevant to this thread. The UK is not all about England all the time you know.

You made your opinions and feelings about Scottish independence perfectly clear three years ago and I don't see any sign that you've had a road-to-Damascus conversion I have to say.
 
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The fake news is still coming. Kezia Dugdale has announced "the council elections show that people are turning away from the SNP." This gets in the paper as if it's something that has actually happened.

The official tally of first-preference votes from last week is now in. The SNP got 610,454 votes, which is an increase of 21% over the same figure from the 2012 council elections.
 
MikeG said:
You may recall that some while back I asked extremely politely about Scottish reaction to XY or Z, in an utterly neutral way. The result was negative, hostile, defensive, aggressive, and, in terms "people like you have no right to ask". All I want to do is completely avoid that situation arising again. I'm not looking to curtail your conversations in the slightest. I am simply trying not to be the catalyst, and the focus of your ire. I want to avoid the subject altogether, for the sake of avoiding the arguments. It wouldn't kill you to post Scottish Independence matters in the Indyref thread, and I'll assume motive if you (collective you) decide that this isn't what you want to do.
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Why don't (individual) you refrain from commenting on this issue in this post? Then you would not be a catalyst, and people could continue referring to it, if they wish, without you becoming the focus of any ire.

I really do think the Labour and Conservative main campaign issue in local elections in part of the uk is relevant in a thread about local elections in the uk.
 
Mike is entirely free to start a thread on the local council elections in England.
 
Rolfe said:
Mike is entirely free to start a thread on the local council elections in England.
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You think that's a valid point? It's OK to write about Scotland in the UK thread, but not England. I see, fine. And how do you think the mods would deal with any attempt to start another thread on the council elections?
 
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