UK General Election

[Strawberry]

Well, as I said, I'm interested to see how this actually plays out.



I fear she is.
She really would not want to go down in history as the PM that broke up the Union. And I suspect she's wiser than Dave was, such that she would not go for a referendum she was not convinced she would win handsomely.

She could still feasibly be PM when the nationalist community in NI hits an electoral majority. I wonder what she will do then, renege on the GFA or risk going down in history as the PM that broke the Union for the second time?

(The first, of course, being David Lloyd George).

 

[Tolls]

Well, in that case it's out of her hands anyway.
The GFA wasn't down to her.

Besides, there's always the south's apparent unwillingness to take on the financial burden.

 

[Strawberry]

Well, in that case it's out of her hands anyway.
The GFA wasn't down to her.

Besides, there's always the south's apparent unwillingness to take on the financial burden.

If the north votes for unity, the Republic won't say no. That's kind of an odd point to throw into this thread anyway, it has no relevance to the PM's decision to hold a border poll, unless you're seriously imagining that any Irish government would tell her not to?

So its just Scotland that's at the mercy of her whims about keeping her precious, precious union then. Thank god for the GFA so.

 

[Tolls]

If the north votes for unity, the Republic won't say no. That's kind of an odd point to throw into this thread anyway, it has no relevance to the PM's decision to hold a border poll, unless you're seriously imagining that any Irish government would tell her not to?

The Irish government wouldn't say no. The result of any poll down south might well do, though I will admit to being a year or more out of date wrt to the polling on that.

So its just Scotland that's at the mercy of her whims about keeping her precious, precious union then. Thank god for the GFA so.

As I said, the GFA wasn't down to her. There is no equivalent regarding a Scottish referendum. So essentially, yes. The Whims of St Theresa.

 

[Strawberry]

The Irish government wouldn't say no. The result of any poll down south might well do, though I will admit to being a year or more out of date wrt to the polling on that.



As I said, the GFA wasn't down to her. There is no equivalent regarding a Scottish referendum. So essentially, yes. The Whims of St Theresa.

You would never get a majority in the Republic to vote against a united Ireland if they knew the majority in the North wanted it. There are some who would vote against it, of course, but most wouldn't.

 

[Information Analyst]

The UK government doesn't have a mandate over Scotland or the Scottish people unless it gets the support of the Scottish people. That's the fundamental disconnect here.

Does that also apply to the swathes of England (and Wales and NI) that vote contrary to whichever UK government is in power?

 

[MikeG]

Running through your commentary.......

Yeah, that's where you went wrong. That and the patronising. I didn't comment. I asked a question. Here it is again, for the hard-of-reading:

None of the Scots here have answered the point I raised some days ago. I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts.

Assume exactly the scenario that Rolfe has just outlined: an increase in the Conservative vote in Scotland, and a decrease in the SNP vote and seats. The numbers aren't important for the sake of this question. If...........if............the Tories have it in their GE manifesto that they won't be allowing an Indyref 2 in this next parliament if re-elected, and they then get the stonking great majority that everyone predicts, what then?

Sturgeon will demand and whine, and May will say no, it's the democratic will of the electorate. What are the SNP's options then?

Further, I asked it previously:

I would be interested in your speculation as to the Scottish situation if the SNP lose a few seats, the Conservatives include not granting another indyref as party policy in their manifesto, and then go on to a large election victory. I know this is 3 hypotheticals, but I suspect there is a strong chance for all three.

Please point out any commentary in that. Please point out where I was anything other than polite to those here. Please point out where I showed any bias or non-neutrality, other than describing Sturgeon, entirely correctly, as whiny.

 

[Darat]

If the north votes for unity, the Republic won't say no. That's kind of an odd point to throw into this thread anyway, it has no relevance to the PM's decision to hold a border poll, unless you're seriously imagining that any Irish government would tell her not to?

So its just Scotland that's at the mercy of her whims about keeping her precious, precious union then. Thank god for the GFA so.

Wales has ceased to exist then?

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Does that also apply to the swathes of England (and Wales and NI) that vote contrary to whichever UK government is in power?

You would have to ask them about that.

Them not being nations probably limits their options to do anything about it but I'm not going to stand in their way if they want to start independence movements.

 

[MikeG]

Does that also apply to the swathes of England (and Wales and NI) that vote contrary to whichever UK government is in power?

Jesus H, did he really say that? No, of course the UK government doesn't get to run the whole of the UK, just those bits of those seats that voted for the ruling party.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Whose opinion do you think that is?

The opinion of those Brit nats who are opposed to a referendum and believe that a vote of the English and Welsh can somehow have sway over Scotlands right to self determination.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Jesus H, did he really say that? No, of course the UK government doesn't get to run the whole of the UK, just those bits of those seats that voted for the ruling party.

Mandate doesn't mean gets to run. Anyone with any intent to discuss these questions in good faith would drop the act and the condescension but good faith is not your intention.

You want to play the victim card as a poor put upon Britnat

 

[3point14]

The opinion of those Brit nats who are opposed to a referendum and believe that a vote of the English and Welsh can somehow have sway over Scotlands right to self determination.

Er, a bit hyperbolic, don't you think?

 

[Strawberry]

Wales has ceased to exist then?

Yes of course it has. That's a perfectly reasonable reading of my post and not at all baiting for the sake of it.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Er, a bit hyperbolic, don't you think?

Not really no. Denying self determination to a people as these britnats desire and their coveted Theresa seems intent on insisting is her right is about as bad as it gets in developed nations.

The continued insistence by some posters that somehow they are on the moral high ground on that is quite frankly pathetic.

Scots for too long have been told to sit down and shut up when forced to insist on fair treatment.

 

[3point14]

Yes of course it has. That's a perfectly reasonable reading of my post and not at all baiting for the sake of it.

Do you work for Trump's press office?

 

[3point14]

The continued insistence by some posters that somehow they are on the moral high ground on that is quite frankly pathetic.

Yes. I'd noticed that...

 

[Information Analyst]

Jesus H, did he really say that? No, of course the UK government doesn't get to run the whole of the UK, just those bits of those seats that voted for the ruling party.

Well, he said: "The UK government doesn't have a mandate over Scotland or the Scottish people unless it gets the support of the Scottish people."

If Scotland gets to decry "no mandate" in response to certain election results, why not bits of England, Wales, and NI, as well?

 

[Tolls]

You would never get a majority in the Republic to vote against a united Ireland if they knew the majority in the North wanted it. There are some who would vote against it, of course, but most wouldn't.

We've been down this road. As I say, my knowledge of the polls is a year or so out of date, so things might have changed post-Brexit and the potential problems that might cause, however at that time the indications were that the south would not vote for union if it was going to cost them, by quite a margin (I seem to remember over 60%).

Not really no. Denying self determination to a people as these britnats desire and their coveted Theresa seems intent on insisting is her right is about as bad as it gets in developed nations.

However, the counter to that is to say "you had a referendum and voted against independence". Yes, Brexit etc (and I don't exactly disagree with that as a reason for another one), it's not quite as colonial as you;re making out.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Well, he said: "The UK government doesn't have a mandate over Scotland or the Scottish people unless it gets the support of the Scottish people."

If Scotland gets to decry "no mandate" in response to certain election results, why not bits of England, Wales, and NI, as well?

Who is stopping them? You?