UK General Election

Strawberry said:
ETA - just in case you're blaming the Scots for any anti-Englishness you perceive in my posts, I'm not Scottish.
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Of course, because only the Sottish are anti-English. Not being Scottish absolves you entirely of bias...


Let's not mention the Welsh, the Irish, the French, the Germans, and a host of other countries. Nonono, you're not Scottish, therefore entirely free from bias.
 
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Darat said:
Anti-english isn't something that can only infect the Scottish population of the UK....
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Never said it was, but given the sarcasm directed at Scottish posters here by one of the other posters, I thought it only fair to point out that one of the people they're arguing with is not a Scot.
 
3point14 said:
Of course, because only the Sottish are anti-English. Not being Scottish absolves you entirely of bias...


Let's not mention the Welsh, the Irish, the French, the Germans, and a host of other countries. Nonono, you're not Scottish, therefore entirely free from bias.
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I'm not free from bias and I'm not claiming to be. I'm asking you not to blame the Scots for my biases, that's all.
 
Darat said:
.......Don't know about you but I've never been able to vote for someone that I 100% agree with personally or their party's policies.
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I have. I stood for a seat on the Parish council many years ago and was astonished to find that I could vote for myself! :D
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
The UK government doesn't have a mandate over Scotland or the Scottish people unless it gets the support of the Scottish people. That's the fundamental disconnect here.
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But that's the point.
In the grand scheme of things that Scottish mandate is an irrelevance.
Hence my mention of "10 ton behemoth".

So Mike's question is...what will you do? What can you do?

I, for one, am going to be quite intrigued to see what happens. However, I doubt it'll be anything significant, because I can't see anyone taking up arms and marching on Berwick. So we're talking a long term plan, maybe?
 
MikeG said:
Luckily, there is a nice neutral cohort of Scots here ready to deal with any uppity English who happen ask pleasant, polite, interested and informed questions, teaching us in the process what "neutral" looks like, and avoiding at all costs giving the impression that they find all English annoying.
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Well if you ever ask a pleasant polite interested and informed question about Scotland we might find out. I assume you will continue to drown everything you say on the topic in condescension and disdain however
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Well if you ever ask a pleasant polite interested and informed question about Scotland we might find out. I assume you will continue to drown everything you say on the topic in condescension and disdain however
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Could you reference the posts you're referring to?
 
Strawberry said:
There are other connotations that could be put upon the way Mike spoke about Nicola Sturgeon but none of them are complimentary or even neutral. She "will demand and whine" is a denigrating, dismissive and belittling way to talk about any grown up person.
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LOL! Who is this Sturgeon goddess who Cannot be Criticised! I thought she was just a politician like all the others who receive criticism all the time but apparently there's something I'm missing.
 
MikeG said:
I'd love to know how I could possibly have asked the same question another way without offending anyone. I took Rolfe's point, added a point about the conservative manifesto, and politely asked for their opinion on what the upshot would be from a Scots perspective. Immediately the personal comments start. Frankly, it's beyond parody. I clearly have a nerve being a reprehensible middle of the road Englishman, and how dare I ask a polite question.... (and other earlier comments in this regard)
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Running through your commentary is a total lack of awareness of historical or contemporary democratic thought; specifically, that remedies need be taken to prevent permanent majorities from oppressing permanent minorities, i.e., the potential for a dictatorship of the majority. Never heard of that, or have we conveniently forgotten? I wonder if you are aware of the main three safeguards for this downside of democratic rule:

- principle of self-determination: main protection for regional ethnic minorities
- universal rights: protects dispersed ethnic and religious minorities
- constitutional law: federalism, multi-nation states, etc.*
*May run contrary to, or in favor of, but in enlightened cases may provide remedy.

At any rate, hand-waving about an English majority having its due and rightful sway over another national minority as an example of proper democracy is quite touching... I haven't seen such complete naiveté since I last watched Gone With The Wind.

Give it some deliberate thought next time; there's a lad.
 
MikeG said:
I don't need to show respect to any political leaders, let alone special little snowflakes of your choosing. I don't think I have ever heard Sturgeon open her mouth without whining. Now, do you want to ask me what I think of Farron or Nuttall or Jones, perhaps? Sturgeon may come out rather well in comparison.
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The problem with nationalism is that it doesn't like to be treated equally. 'Our leader must be respected (even when yours aren't)'. 'One vote of ours should be worth ten of yours'. Etc etc.
 
Mike isn't hand-waving anything.

He's asking a question that those who are pro-Scottish independence need to answer.
In the likely case of a hefty Tory majority, what is the expectation from that camp? Especially if (unlikely though I feel it to be) no-IndyRef forms part of their manifesto.

(To be honest that last bit is probably irrelevant as May simply doesn't want a referendum, and a large majority means she can ignore calls otherwise).

These are the practical realities of our current system.
Some of us may wish they were otherwise, but they currently are not.
 
Tolls said:
But that's the point.
In the grand scheme of things that Scottish mandate is an irrelevance.
Hence my mention of "10 ton behemoth".

So Mike's question is...what will you do? What can you do?

I, for one, am going to be quite intrigued to see what happens. However, I doubt it'll be anything significant, because I can't see anyone taking up arms and marching on Berwick. So we're talking a long term plan, maybe?
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Well this has been discussed ad nauseum here which is again evidence that some people are not asking questions in good faith.

The general election changes nothing regarding the broader picture. Holyrood can go ahead with the referendum with or without Westminster and can seek to implement the result thereafter. If the RUK refuses to play along then the ultimate recourse is a UDI and international law.

But bear in mind we are now discussing a hypothetical where May is more anti Scots than Thatcher.
 
Giz said:
The problem with nationalism is that it doesn't like to be treated equally. 'Our leader must be respected (even when yours aren't)'. 'One vote of ours should be worth ten of yours'. Etc etc.
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Indeed. And your and others Brit nationalism insists that equal isn't enough. Scots must be subjugated and rebellion crushed.
 
Tolls said:
Mike isn't hand-waving anything.

He's asking a question that those who are pro-Scottish independence need to answer.
In the likely case of a hefty Tory majority, what is the expectation from that camp? Especially if (unlikely though I feel it to be) no-IndyRef forms part of their manifesto.

(To be honest that last bit is probably irrelevant as May simply doesn't want a referendum, and a large majority means she can ignore calls otherwise).

These are the practical realities of our current system.
Some of us may wish they were otherwise, but they currently are not.
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It's been answered about six times on this very thread now.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
The general election changes nothing regarding the broader picture. Holyrood can go ahead with the referendum with or without Westminster and can seek to implement the result thereafter. If the RUK refuses to play along then the ultimate recourse is a UDI and international law.
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Well, as I said, I'm interested to see how this actually plays out.

Archie Gemmill Goal said:
But bear in mind we are now discussing a hypothetical where May is more anti Scots than Thatcher.
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I fear she is.
She really would not want to go down in history as the PM that broke up the Union. And I suspect she's wiser than Dave was, such that she would not go for a referendum she was not convinced she would win handsomely.
 
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