UK General Election

Tolls said:
Mike's point isn't about telling the Scots to shut up.
It's about the practicalities.

The mandate he refers to is the UK government mandate, which is dominated by the 10 ton behemoth to your south. If the Tories have a "no-IndyRef2" in their manifesto then what can the SNP do about it if the Tories then end up with a hefty majority?

I do think it would be a bloody stupid idea of May, but who knows? Dumber things have been done...

ETA: Apologies to Mike if I've misinterpreted his point.
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The UK government doesn't have a mandate over Scotland or the Scottish people unless it gets the support of the Scottish people. That's the fundamental disconnect here.
 
MikeG said:
Why would you think this would go down well with me?
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The way you cast the Scottish FM as a very small girl who "will demand and whine", while Theresa May is the strict parent who tells her no.

Is it your opinion that it would be a good idea to keep Scotland in the UK against the will of the majority of Scotland's people?
 
Strawberry said:
The way you cast the Scottish FM as a very small girl who "will demand and whine", while Theresa May is the strict parent who tells her no.

Is it your opinion that it would be a good idea to keep Scotland in the UK against the will of the majority of Scotland's people?
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Hang on, where did 'very small girl' come from? I missed that? Where did he say that?
 
3point14 said:
Hang on, where did 'very small girl' come from? I missed that? Where did he say that?
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I said he cast her as a very small girl, which he did by the language he used. That's the way you talk about a small child demanding its own way, not a democratically elected First Minister of Scotland calling on the government to hold a referendum.
 
Strawberry said:
I said he cast her as a very small girl, which he did by the language he used. That's the way you talk about a small child demanding its own way
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Er, exclusively? Is that the only connotation you could come up with? Or have you just painted the comment in the worst possible light to further enable your ire?


Of course, the conversation will be greatly facilitated by taking everything the other person says in the worst possible light, that'll really help.



(Fools rush in. I shall now be angelic)
 
People have their biasses. It's the ones who ask loaded questions and display an openly partisan position while insisting that they're neutral middle-of-the-road observers that I find quite annoying.
 
3point14 said:
Er, exclusively? Is that the only connotation you could come up with? Or have you just painted the comment in the worst possible light to further enable your ire?


Of course, the conversation will be greatly facilitated by taking everything the other person says in the worst possible light, that'll really help.



(Fools rush in. I shall now be angelic)
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There are other connotations that could be put upon the way Mike spoke about Nicola Sturgeon but none of them are complimentary or even neutral. She "will demand and whine" is a denigrating, dismissive and belittling way to talk about any grown up person.
 
Strawberry said:
There are other connotations that could be put upon the way Mike spoke about Nicola Sturgeon but none of them are complimentary or even neutral. She "will demand and whine" is a denigrating, dismissive and belittling way to talk about any grown up person.
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Par for the course. Of course if anyone reacts to the constant disdain, belittling and denigration then they have a chip on their shoulder and are just being aggressive and unreasonable porridge wogs.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Par for the course. Of course if anyone reacts to the constant disdain, belittling and denigration then they have a chip on their shoulder and are just being aggressive and unreasonable porridge wogs.
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And then they wonder why there are Scottish people who want independence! Of course, there's no good reason for it so....ooh, I know, they must all be bigots who hate the English.
 
Strawberry said:
The way you cast the Scottish FM as a very small girl who "will demand and whine", while Theresa May is the strict parent who tells her no.
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I mentioned "very small girl" somewhere, did I? All sorts of people are making all sorts of assumptions here.

Is it your opinion that it would be a good idea to keep Scotland in the UK against the will of the majority of Scotland's people?
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Is it your opinion that this is on topic for this thread? Nice straw man, by the way.
 
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Rolfe said:
People have their biasses. It's the ones who ask loaded questions and display an openly partisan position while insisting that they're neutral middle-of-the-road observers that I find quite annoying.
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Luckily, there is a nice neutral cohort of Scots here ready to deal with any uppity English who happen ask pleasant, polite, interested and informed questions, teaching us in the process what "neutral" looks like, and avoiding at all costs giving the impression that they find all English annoying.
 
MikeG said:
I mentioned "very small girl" somewhere, did I? All sorts of people are making all sorts of assumptions here.



Is it you opinion that this is on topic for this thread? Nice straw man, by the way.
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You spoke about Nicola Sturgeon as if she were a small child demanding sweets so I didn't have far to go to reach an assumption.

I'm asking you if you think its a good idea to keep Scotland in the UK against its will because I can't see any other earthly point to Theresa May putting denial of a referendum into a UK wide manifesto. If the majority of Scots want to stay there would be no need to deny them a referendum, they can tell the SNP they don't want a referendum themselves at the next election by not voting for them, and if the majority want to leave denying them a referendum would be keeping them against their will.

ETA - just in case you're blaming the Scots for any anti-Englishness you perceive in my posts, I'm not Scottish.
 
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Strawberry said:
You spoke about Nicola Sturgeon as if she were a small child demanding sweets so I didn't have far to go to reach an assumption.

I'm asking you if you think its a good idea to keep Scotland in the UK against its will because I can't see any other earthly point to Theresa May putting denial of a referendum into a UK wide manifesto. If the majority of Scots want to stay there would be no need to deny them a referendum, they can tell the SNP they don't want a referendum themselves at the next election by not voting for them, and if the majority want to leave denying them a referendum would be keeping them against their will.

ETA - just in case you're blaming the Scots for any anti-Englishness you perceive in my posts, I'm not Scottish.
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I think there will be more to the SNP's manifesto than a single policy.

Don't know about you but I've never been able to vote for someone that I 100% agree with personally or their party's policies.
 
Strawberry said:
...snip...nying them a referendum would be keeping them against their will.

ETA - just in case you're blaming the Scots for any anti-Englishness you perceive in my posts, I'm not Scottish.
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Anti-english isn't something that can only infect the Scottish population of the UK....
 
MikeG said:
Luckily, there is a nice neutral cohort of Scots here ready to deal with any uppity English who happen ask pleasant, polite, interested and informed questions, teaching us in the process what "neutral" looks like, and avoiding at all costs giving the impression that they find all English annoying.
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One day I'll read a thread about Scotland that doesn't have 'you're not Scottish, you don't know man!' in it somewhere.
 
Strawberry said:
You spoke about Nicola Sturgeon as if she were a small child demanding sweets so I didn't have far to go to reach an assumption.
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I don't need to show respect to any political leaders, let alone special little snowflakes of your choosing. I don't think I have ever heard Sturgeon open her mouth without whining. Now, do you want to ask me what I think of Farron or Nuttall or Jones, perhaps? Sturgeon may come out rather well in comparison.

I'm asking you if you think its a good idea to keep Scotland in the UK against its will because I can't see any other earthly point to Theresa May putting denial of a referendum into a UK wide manifesto.
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And I'm asking you to stay on topic in this thread.
 
Darat said:
I think there will be more to the SNP's manifesto than a single policy.

Don't know about you but I've never been able to vote for someone that I 100% agree with personally or their party's policies.
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That would be another reason why it would be a bad idea for May to put denial of another Scottish referendum into a UK wide manifesto. Is it really fair to claim a democratic mandate for that denial when people in England and Wales would most likely have voted Tory for reasons that had nothing to do with a Scottish referendum?
 
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