UK - December 2019 General Election

[ThatGuy11200]

Antisemitism again, is it?

Two Tory candidates have been suspended in just the last two weeks for antisemitism and another has been found to have retweeted antisemitic posts from the far-right nutjob Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (who goes by the stage name Tommy Robinson).

 

[catsmate]

Antisemitism again, is it?

Two Tory candidates have been suspended in just the last two weeks for antisemitism and another has been found to have retweeted antisemitic posts from the far-right nutjob Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (who goes by the stage name Tommy Robinson).

Though, to be fair to the Cons, there's also be plenty of anti-Muslim bigotry from their members, candidates and electees. Including BJ hinself.

 

[Information Analyst]

Or alternatively, is the Chief Rabbi a Tory? Either explanation is possible.

Statistically there is a high probability, regardless of some posters not liking that unfortunate fact being pointed out.

 

[Information Analyst]

Antisemitism again, is it?

Two Tory candidates have been suspended in just the last two weeks for antisemitism and another has been found to have retweeted antisemitic posts from the far-right nutjob Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (who goes by the stage name Tommy Robinson).

I genuinely believe that there is far more real visceral antisemitism and - especially - Islamophobia amongst Tory party members, but obviously the media isn't interested in that.

 

[The Don]

Though, to be fair to the Cons, there's also be plenty of anti-Muslim bigotry from their members, candidates and electees. Including BJ hinself.

I genuinely believe that there is far more real visceral antisemitism and - especially - Islamophobia amongst Tory party members, but obviously the media isn't interested in that.

IMO it's already "priced in" to the Conservatives. Heck, Islamophobia might actually bring them support - especially if it is of the dogwhistle kind.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Didn't Labour just recently have a Jewish party leader?

 

[3point14]

And I think that's the fundamental issue on pretty much everything. The people with the power are the people who benefit from the system and they aren't suddenly going to decide to change the system unless they are pretty much forced to.

To paraphrase your accurate statement above, 'democracy is broken'.

 

[The Don]

Didn't Labour just recently have a Jewish party leader?

When ? Ed Miliband's parents were Jewish, but according to Wikipedia he describes himself as an Atheist Jew.

Miliband is of Jewish heritage — the first Jewish leader of the Labour Party — and describes himself as a Jewish atheist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Miliband#Personal_life

I'm not sure that necessarily would qualify, especially in the eyes of those who are making the allegations.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

So what do people think about the chief rabbis intervention? Has it opened peoples eyes to Labour being institutionally anti Semitic?

This anti-semitic nonsense has been a great way to weed out the absolute trumpets in public life. The Chief Rabbi appears to be one. And the press have jumped on the statement of course.

Of course the Islamophobia in the Tories is simply overlooked because the press simply ignore it or indulge it.

Anyone who thinks Jeremy Corbyn is actually anti-semitic is an idiot. Anyone who calls Labour the racist party is a dishonest idiot (or a Tory minister, same thing)

 

[Giz]

Here is the UN definition of indigenous people:

'Indigenous communities, peoples, and nations are those that, having a historical continuity with pre-invasion and pre-colonial societies that developed on their territories, consider themselves distinct from other sectors of the societies now prevailing in those territories, or parts of them. They form at present non-dominant sectors of society and are determined to preserve, develop, and transmit to future generations their ancestral territories, and their ethnic identity, as the basis of their continued existence as peoples, in accordance with their own cultural patterns, social institutions and legal systems."

Pre-colonial being a key word there I think. I don't think the people of the Falklands are anywhere near to satisfying this definition.

For the falklands, the pre-colonial era of peaceful settlement of unoccupied land was 1840. And the colonial era of invasion was 1982.

 

[3point14]

Just some musings:


I think Corbyn continues to be the most smeared man in British politics.

Corbyn's being pilloried for 'not having done enough' to fight antisemitism.

Boris, however, can apparently use the following terms freely and without report: "piccaninnies with watermelon smiles" (Black people), “letterboxes”, (Muslim women), and "bum boys", (gay men.)

There's no longer any semblance of fair or reasonable reporting,.


http://www.lse.ac.uk/media-and-comm...rch-projects/representations-of-jeremy-corbyn

"Our analysis shows that Corbyn was thoroughly delegitimised as a political actor from the moment he became a prominent candidate and even more so after he was elected as party leader, with a strong mandate. This process of delegitimisation occurred in several ways: 1) through lack of or distortion of voice; 2) through ridicule, scorn and personal attacks; and 3) through association, mainly with terrorism."


The game is now rigged. Any semblance of an informed democracy is out of the window.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Just some musings:


I think Corbyn continues to be the most smeared man in British politics.

Corbyn's being pilloried for 'not having done enough' to fight antisemitism.

Boris, however, can apparently use the following terms freely and without report: "piccaninnies with watermelon smiles" (Black people), “letterboxes”, (Muslim women), and "bum boys", (gay men.)

There's no longer any semblance of fair or reasonable reporting,.


http://www.lse.ac.uk/media-and-comm...rch-projects/representations-of-jeremy-corbyn

"Our analysis shows that Corbyn was thoroughly delegitimised as a political actor from the moment he became a prominent candidate and even more so after he was elected as party leader, with a strong mandate. This process of delegitimisation occurred in several ways: 1) through lack of or distortion of voice; 2) through ridicule, scorn and personal attacks; and 3) through association, mainly with terrorism."


The game is now rigged. Any semblance of an informed democracy is out of the window.

Back on the election topic and this is pretty much spot on.

You can point all sorts of fingers at Corbyn over any number of things but the bottom line is he never had a chance anyway because the game was rigged against him from Day 1.

The only surprising thing for me is the number of people ostensibly on the left who still seem to think that Corbyn is the problem rather than the system.

Boris Johnson is the most trusted of all the candidates for PM according to recent polling. By quite some margin. That tells you all you need to know about the system.

 

[Giz]

through association, mainly with terrorism.

Laying wreaths for terrorists will do that
Calling genocidal terrorists "friends" will do that
Inviting the IRA to the commons two weeks after the brighton bombing will do that
Refusing to say he would authorize deadly force to stop terrorists will do that

This may be hard to hear, but a lot of Corbyn's problems are self inflicted.

I think a lot of people are so desperate to have a left wing PM, that they are willfully blinding themselves to the obvious conclusion that this guy is the wrong leftwing PM. He is unfit for office.

The game is now rigged. Any semblance of an informed democracy is out of the window.

One bad candidate noes not mean that we should give up on democracy. What defeatist talk.

 

[3point14]

Laying wreaths for terrorists will do that
Calling genocidal terrorists "friends" will do that
Inviting the IRA to the commons two weeks after the brighton bombing will do that
Refusing to say he would authorize deadly force to stop terrorists will do that

This may be hard to hear, but a lot of Corbyn's problems are self inflicted.]

If you want to make your enemies your friends then you have to meet them. But that's by the by.

The bottom line is that by far the majority of his issues are because he's the most smeared man in British politics. Read the article I posted.

His problems, electorally are caused by reporting being biased in that it reports every slight on Corbyn, real or rumored and Boris can lie with impunity, each and every made up quote and utter untruth by the wayside as the press rush to repor that Corbyn 'isn't doing enough.


You can harp back to those actions of Corbyn's that you think were unwise if you like, but the bottom line is that he is not, in any way, fairly treated by the UK press.

I think a lot of people are so desperate to have a left wing PM, that they are willfully blinding themselves to the obvious conclusion that this guy is the wrong leftwing PM. He is unfit for office.

No, he isn't. He's merely painted as unfit by a grossly biased UK press. REad the article I posted.

One bad candidate noes not mean that we should give up on democracy. What defeatist talk.

No, a terrible, biased press corps bent on wildly misinforming the populace means democracy isn't working. Democracy requires an informed electorate and those that own newspapers are hellbent that this shouldn't happen.

I'm not giving up on democracy, but to blindly decide it's working when it's clearly not is idiocy.

 

[GlennB]

Just some musings:

I think Corbyn continues to be the most smeared man in British politics.

Corbyn's being pilloried for 'not having done enough' to fight antisemitism.

Boris, however, can apparently use the following terms freely and without report: "piccaninnies with watermelon smiles" (Black people), “letterboxes”, (Muslim women), and "bum boys", (gay men.)

There's no longer any semblance of fair or reasonable reporting,.

http://www.lse.ac.uk/media-and-comm...rch-projects/representations-of-jeremy-corbyn

"Our analysis shows that Corbyn was thoroughly delegitimised as a political actor from the moment he became a prominent candidate and even more so after he was elected as party leader, with a strong mandate. This process of delegitimisation occurred in several ways: 1) through lack of or distortion of voice; 2) through ridicule, scorn and personal attacks; and 3) through association, mainly with terrorism."

The game is now rigged. Any semblance of an informed democracy is out of the window.

Amen to that. I can only hope that enough people see through the anti-Corbyn hype to give Labour a fair shot.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Laying wreaths for terrorists will do that
Calling genocidal terrorists "friends" will do that
Inviting the IRA to the commons two weeks after the brighton bombing will do that
Refusing to say he would authorize deadly force to stop terrorists will do that

This may be hard to hear, but a lot of Corbyn's problems are self inflicted.

I think a lot of people are so desperate to have a left wing PM, that they are willfully blinding themselves to the obvious conclusion that this guy is the wrong leftwing PM. He is unfit for office.

Boris Johnson is a serial liar who won't even admit how many kids he has. Has serious questions to answer regarding Russian interference. Fiddled public funds into the business of his fancy piece and was forced by a court to abandon his attempt to illegally disband Parliament in order to sneak through his plan to wilfully damage the economy of the country, one which he had to lie to the monarch to enact. He is actually UNFIT for office. But funny, you nor the right-wing press seem that bothered about this.

One bad candidate noes not mean that we should give up on democracy. What defeatist talk.

One? Have you looked at who is standing for the Tories and Brexit Party?

 

[Giz]

If you want to make your enemies your friends then you have to meet them. But that's by the by.

He is selective about who he calls friends. He'll call genocidal terrorists like Hamas and Hezbollah friends and share a podium with them. But would he do the same for Likud? Not a chance, it's boycotts for them.

The man has no moral sense.

The bottom line is that by far the majority of his issues are because he's the most smeared man in British politics. Read the article I posted.

I did. It's biased apologetics.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

No, a terrible, biased press corps bent on wildly misinforming the populace means democracy isn't working. Democracy requires an informed electorate and those that own newspapers are hellbent that this shouldn't happen.

I'm not giving up on democracy, but to blindly decide it's working when it's clearly not is idiocy.

Our politics has become horribly Americanised of late. A dishonest partisan media, lying candidates, a badly informed and poorly educated electorate, whoever has the most money wins and look... here come Russian billionaires to provide it.

Throw in a sprinkle of alt-right cretins on social media and an inherently racist population and you have a wonderful mix indeed.

Unfortunately I don't see a solution.

 

[Giz]

Boris Johnson is a serial liar who won't even admit how many kids he has. Has serious questions to answer regarding Russian interference. Fiddled public funds into the business of his fancy piece and was forced by a court to abandon his attempt to illegally disband Parliament in order to sneak through his plan to wilfully damage the economy of the country, one which he had to lie to the monarch to enact. He is actually UNFIT for office. But funny, you nor the right-wing press seem that bothered about this.

This is whataboutism. hardly a convincing defence - unless you're claiming that corbyn is despicable but not quite as despicable a Bojo, in which case that would be worth examining. (FWIW, I agree that Boris Johnson has serious flaws)

One? Have you looked at who is standing for the Tories and Brexit Party?

Touche.

Yes, there are multiple horrible politicians (on the left, right and SNP). That doesn't invalidate democracy.

 

[3point14]

Boris Johnson is a serial liar who won't even admit how many kids he has. Has serious questions to answer regarding Russian interference. Fiddled public funds into the business of his fancy piece and was forced by a court to abandon his attempt to illegally disband Parliament in order to sneak through his plan to wilfully damage the economy of the country, one which he had to lie to the monarch to enact. He is actually UNFIT for office. But funny, you nor the right-wing press seem that bothered about this.



One? Have you looked at who is standing for the Tories and Brexit Party?

Sod discussions of what is and isn't colonialism, this is spot on.