UK - December 2019 General Election

[catsmate]

Yes there is some evidence:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ins/parentscountryofbirthenglandandwales/2018

Or more accurately women born overseas have more children than women born in the UK - nothing about going back generations:



What puzzles me is that ceptimus and xenophobes seem to want an increasingly elderly society where fewer and fewer working age people are supporting a larger and larger retired population. They also seem to think that someone born in the UK to a mother born overseas is less British (or possibly more accurately, English) than someone born in the UK to a mother born in the UK. A quick glance at sporting teams might scotch that idea.

Then again, these figures are presented without adjusting for other possible factors.

Some good news in those figures for the little-Englanders:



Then again perhaps not, after all someone born to fifth generation immigrants from India, Pakistan, Jamaica or Nigeria is still a worthy oriental gentleperson.

edited to add....

Figures apply only to England and Wales. Scotland and Northern Ireland aren't included but IMO their population is sufficiently small that it's unlikely that it will reverse the position.

Because they're xenophobes, racists and 'otherists'. It's not about facts, or economic reality, it's about applying s veneer of superficial plausibility and justification to their bigotry.
Ideas such as 'support ratio' are far beyond such people.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Yes there is some evidence:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ins/parentscountryofbirthenglandandwales/2018

Or more accurately women born overseas have more children than women born in the UK - nothing about going back generations:



What puzzles me is that ceptimus and xenophobes seem to want an increasingly elderly society where fewer and fewer working age people are supporting a larger and larger retired population. They also seem to think that someone born in the UK to a mother born overseas is less British (or possibly more accurately, English) than someone born in the UK to a mother born in the UK. A quick glance at sporting teams might scotch that idea.

Then again, these figures are presented without adjusting for other possible factors.

Some good news in those figures for the little-Englanders:



Then again perhaps not, after all someone born to fifth generation immigrants from India, Pakistan, Jamaica or Nigeria is still a worthy oriental gentleperson.

edited to add....

Figures apply only to England and Wales. Scotland and Northern Ireland aren't included but IMO their population is sufficiently small that it's unlikely that it will reverse the position.

Woman born overseas have more kids per head than those born here but that would have to be quite some difference to actually mean that immigrants have more kids than those born here in absolute terms.

It's just blatant xenophobic racist pish. Unsurprisingly.

As for why the xenophobes want an increasingly aging society - they want more people who look, think and act like them. Tired old gammons who hate everything that hasn't got a picture of the Queen on it.

 

[Darat]

Still with the xenophobic lies?

Always remember the tv programme about some of these England for the English, damn these foreigners and one of them was going on about generations of Britishness and her family went back thousands of years and no one only here for a few generations is really English. Turned out her recent ish (100 years) ancestors were from mainland Europe... For some reason she didn't think she should be sent back to where she belonged!

 

[Ian Osborne]

"For it's ****** this, and darky that,
And send the buggers back,
But when it's Sonia Lannerman
They wave the Union Jack."

- Roger Waddis

I'm not sure who Roger Waddis is, but that's a good sendup of a Kipling poem.

 

[Ian Osborne]

Always remember the tv programme about some of these England for the English, damn these foreigners and one of them was going on about generations of Britishness and her family went back thousands of years and no one only here for a few generations is really English. Turned out her recent ish (100 years) ancestors were from mainland Europe... For some reason she didn't think she should be sent back to where she belonged!

Why stop there? The entire human race originated in North Africa, so why not send us all back and leave the rest of the world to its native species?

 

[jimbob]

https://twitter.com/StevePogson1/status/1198182697585250304

He's not even the only Tory they have on speed-dial.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/aunties-favourite/


ETA: Sorry the second guy is UKIP and Britain First, not a Tory. Not surprising really in the light of how often Nigel Farage is on, and the fact that the woman responsible for assenbling the panels is a fan of Britain First.

Not surprising given Alison Fuller Pedley's stated views on social media and her acts as the audience producer of BBC Question Time - how that wasn't considered unacceptable - I'm not sure.

Example story from 2016, but it's not improved:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ourbeeb/is-question-time-s-audience-producer-really-fascist/

 

[jimbob]

Oh, class* act from Gove and Hannan

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1199329988803276802 for screenshots


*What sort of class, I leave as an exercise for the reader, but it probably involves blackface.

 

[Rolfe]

Not surprising given Alison Fuller Pedley's stated views on social media and her acts as the audience producer of BBC Question Time - how that wasn't considered unacceptable - I'm not sure.

Example story from 2016, but it's not improved:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ourbeeb/is-question-time-s-audience-producer-really-fascist/

I remember that at the time, although I couldn't find the link. Thanks for finding it. As far as I know she's still picking the audience and as you say it hasn't got better. People have repeatedly tried to get on the show while disclosing their SNP leanings and been refused, then someone else in the same household applies saying they're a Conservative voter and is accepted.

There was a recent edition of QT from (I think) Dundee where almost everyone who spoke had an English accent. Nothing wrong with having an English accent but a normal cross-section of Dundee citizens does not have an English accent. The audience seemed overwhelmingly hostile to independence or even having another referendum, which was odd because Dundee turned in a majority Yes vote in 2014.

Then the presenter asked the audience to put their hands up to show support or otherwise for either the SNP or independence or having a second referendum, I'm not sure which it was. Only a very few hands went up, and the presenter seemed to use this as a "gotcha" against an SNP or independence-supporting panellist. (I'm doing this from memory, forgive me if it's not quite right.) But as well as voting majority Yes, Dundee currently votes about 35-40% SNP. Surely these audiences should reflect the political makeup of the town where they're being held. Isn't that the idea? That audience should have been around 35-40% SNP supporters. The exercise with the hand-raising actually displayed how unrepresentative the audience was.

Various people have pointed out the number of times Nigel Farage has been on despite having no MPs and no parliamentary representation for most of the time. Nigel Farage is to some extent a creation of the BBC.

I could move on to blatant examples of BBC bias in other areas, but I now have 1,600 election leaflets to count out into delivery routes so I won't. But if anyone thinks that Auntie is scrupulously fair and isn't pushing an agenda, they're in cloud cuckoo land.

 

[The Don]

I could move on to blatant examples of BBC bias in other areas, but I now have 1,600 election leaflets to count out into delivery routes so I won't. But if anyone thinks that Auntie is scrupulously fair and isn't pushing an agenda, they're in cloud cuckoo land.

And yet Tories will swear that the Beeb is awash with leftists who refuse to give them a fair shake.

 

[Nessie]

I have just voted.

 

[Matthew Best]

Oh, class* act from Gove and Hannan

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1199329988803276802 for screenshots


*What sort of class, I leave as an exercise for the reader, but it probably involves blackface.

The replies to Gove's tweet are quite good fun:

https://twitter.com/michaelgove/status/1199304826468876288

 

[Matthew Best]

Various people have pointed out the number of times Nigel Farage has been on despite having no MPs and no parliamentary representation for most of the time. Nigel Farage is to some extent a creation of the BBC.

Found on Facebook so I can't vouch for its accuracy, but:

 

[Rolfe]

Found on Facebook so I can't vouch for its accuracy, but:

https://i.imgur.com/SF4IEAf.png

Given that it's specifically citing MEPs it's probably right. Most MEPs are actually over there in Brussels or Strasbourg doing actual work. Farage doesn't bother with that part very much, so he's available. He's being invited as the head of UKIP or the Brexit Party rather than as an MEP per se.

The point about his huge over-representation is still absolutely valid. I'm just pointing out that while the table seems absolutely ludicrous and surely it can't be right, it could well be right. Especially given that it's Alison Fuller Pedley picking the participants.

 

[Information Analyst]

The immigrants have more children than the population that's lived here for generations,

And after a generation they have the same as the existing population. That's a pattern that's been established for so long that it is fundamentally dishonest to resort to claiming that "immigrants have more children" in the first place.

so again the rise in population is largely due to immigration.

False. Last year 28.2% of live births were to non-UK-born mothers, split as:

* 10.6% EU
* 17.6% non-EU

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ins/parentscountryofbirthenglandandwales/2018

 

[Giz]

So what do people think about the chief rabbis intervention? Has it opened peoples eyes to Labour being institutionally anti Semitic?

 

[Rolfe]

Or alternatively, is the Chief Rabbi a Tory? Either explanation is possible.

 

[Ian Osborne]

So what do people think about the chief rabbis intervention? Has it opened peoples eyes to Labour being institutionally anti Semitic?

The Chief Rabbi is a personal friend of Boris Johnson. His intervention in the election is dishonest.

 

[Giz]

The Chief Rabbi is a personal friend of Boris Johnson. His intervention in the election is dishonest.

Unfortunately this appears to be a smear. Per this:

“Amid a backlash from Labour supporters, Holly Rigby, a teacher who is regularly interviewed by the media about the party, said people had to read Rabbi Mirvis "in the context" of being a supporter of the Conservative prime minister and “an uncritical supporter of Netanyahu and the violent oppression of Palestinians by Israel".

Her tweet, for which she was widely condemned, cited the fact he had "congratulated" Mr Johnson on becoming Conservative leader - a common formality whenever a new party leader is chosen - and the fact he said in August 2014 that Israel had "understandly and justifiably defended her citizens" by taking military action in Gaza.”


So Labour supporters response to anti semitism is to down play and smear. Unfortunate and immoral but expected.

 

[Ian Osborne]

Unfortunately this appears to be a smear.

He wrote on Facebook, “I am delighted to congratulate Boris Johnson, a longstanding friend and champion of the Jewish community, on becoming the next leader of the Conservative Party and our next Prime Minister. As he accepts upon himself the mantle of responsibility to lead our nation, may he be blessed with the wisdom to successfully navigate the political uncertainties we face and bring healing and prosperity to our great country.” This seems a lot more than a courtesy from one leader to another. 'Longstanding friend'?

Source

 

[Giz]

He wrote on Facebook, “I am delighted to congratulate Boris Johnson, a longstanding friend and champion of the Jewish community, on becoming the next leader of the Conservative Party and our next Prime Minister. As he accepts upon himself the mantle of responsibility to lead our nation, may he be blessed with the wisdom to successfully navigate the political uncertainties we face and bring healing and prosperity to our great country.” This seems a lot more than a courtesy from one leader to another. 'Longstanding friend'?

Source

I read “longstanding friend and champion of the Jewish community” as saying Bojo is both a friend and champion of the Jewish community. Not that he is the rabbi’s friend and a champion of the Jewish community. I.e. it’s not a declaration that they have had a long personal friendship.