UFO'S: A possible explanation

[King of the Americas]

It has arms, wings a human head, this what you think your average U.F.O. looks like ?

if the artist had wanted to draw God in the sky he would have, he didn't so your conclusion is forced

baloney, the picture is not thousands of years old, its barely 500, and the images that appear in it are well known and documented, the only person who has lostthe artists true meaning here is you. I mean really ask yourself, why would someone whos painting is an extension of their faith paint things in a religious picture, that aren't relative to their dogma.
in this case the glowing cloud description is taken from scripture

now you want to use that imagination of yours to tell me how the U.F.O. manages to enter a cave ?
are you unaware that God takes the form of a cloud ?

or were you thinking that aliens regularly led the children of israel on 40 year marches around the levant ?

so what have you shown us so far
you don't know anything about history
you don't know anything about religious iconography
you don't know anything about evaluating evidence
you don't know anything about the bible
you are incapable of reading a source that you have requested

are you really still going to claim that you know about u.f.o.s in history ?
you can if you like, but don't expect anyone except other woos to listen, youve used up all your credit in this thread.

perhaps in future when you challenge someone to explain something to you and they do that by providing you a website written by an expert, you might actually bother to read it. But this is so typical of alien believers, you don't know the subject matter at all so your claims are based on gaps in your knowledge, and not the gaps in anyone elses.

only you can change this. Better start now bud, youre way behind the pack

Stop...

Take a moment to look back at what I presented.

I have never used or evoked "God". Instead, I use the term "god(s)".

Second, I've said that 'similar images' litter our historical texts, artwork, and stories.

Third, I state clearly, that our failure lies in our mis-interpreting the history passed down to us...

What 'I' know about art is that it must be seen with an understanding of the time in which it was created, and for whom.

You know nothing of what I 'know', so just stop with all the name calling. In fact, I AM studied in many religious texts. Although, I am NOT a believer in "aliens". There's no reason whatsoever, to believe 'they' are any more alien to this planet than we are. According to the ancient texts 'we' are their little science project, half-breeds from some upright walking thing...

My point is that 'they' have ALWAYS been in our heavens, according to our historical texts.

The same shapes, images, figures...all point to "guardians" in the "heavens".

 

[Marduk]

Stop...

Take a moment to look back at what I presented.

you have only presented that you don't understand what you have been looking at

I have never used or evoked "God". Instead, I use the term "god(s)".

none of the art from the renaiisance has anything to do with Gods, the artists of these pictures were all monotheists

Second, I've said that 'similar images' litter our historical texts, artwork, and stories.

and I asked you for an example, your example I have shown you is perfectly well explained already as the way that God was depicted in this type of art, I am still waiting to hearhow u.f.o.s enter caves, you gonna answer that question or ignore it like all the others ?

Third, I state clearly, that our failure lies in our mis-interpreting the history passed down to us...

this is not our failure, its your failure to accept the answer which fits all the evidence

What 'I' know about art is that it must be seen with an understanding of the time in which it was created, and for whom.

finally we are getting somewhere, so let me ask you, how do the painters of this type of art depict God ?

You know nothing of what I 'know',

you have been demonstrating what you know and you clearly know nothing, whats worse is that you refuse to learn

so just stop with all the name calling.

if the shoe fits

In fact, I AM studied in many religious texts.

sorry but thats just an outright lie on your part, you have shown no ability to interpret any ancient text correctly in any of your posts

Although, I am NOT a believer in "aliens". There's no reason whatsoever, to believe 'they' are any more alien to this planet than we are. According to the ancient texts 'we' are their little science project, half-breeds from some upright walking thing...

You just proved then that the source for your alleged knowledge of ancient texts are a bunch of woo sellers, NO ancient text claims that humanity was created as a science project. Besides which, genetics proves you wrong

My point is that 'they' have ALWAYS been in our heavens, according to our historical texts.

which historical texts are these, more from ufo.com ?

The same shapes, images, figures...all point to "guardians" in the "heavens".

right so you can provide evidence from ancient sources of a silver metal saucer can you, I doubt it,
you are failing to understand ancient cosmology, even after it was expalined to you, the Gods lived in heaven, not the heavens, and as of yet you have not provided one single example of supporting evidence, your belief is based solely on your imagination, mine is based on years of research and study

thats why you've got yourself pwned every post in this thread

 

[I Ratant]

I'm sure after everyone quits freaking out, we'd probably attempt to establish contact. To learn their technology, biology, secrets of the universe, etc. The SETI people probably have a plan for it already. "Plan A."

.
"Plan A" appears to be contact mouth-breathers and slack jaws, probe them, and go on to the next Jethro they find, probe, etc.
The total lack of any contact with normal people points to no "Plan B" on their part.

 

[Marduk]

.
"Plan A" appears to be contact mouth-breathers and slack jaws, probe them, and go on to the next Jethro they find, probe, etc.
The total lack of any contact with normal people points to no "Plan B" on their part.

yes well you need to understand the situation back on their home planet, where anal probing is banned and anal probers face execution, thats why they have to travel a long long way to get their rocks off.
and really, one arse is much the same as another, no matter who its attached to, they even anal probed some cows didn't they, so theyre not fussy

 

[I Ratant]

During my cataract experience, I observed that bright lights at night resembled the drawings of comets made before the invention of the telescope.
Very hairy stars.
Some street lights a mile away which should be just small points would appear to be many feet in diameter.
Expecting precision in "ancient drawings" when there were no optical aids to compensate for bad eyesight is somewhat naive.

 

[King of the Americas]

you have only presented that you don't understand what you have been looking at

none of the art from the renaiisance has anything to do with Gods, the artists of these pictures were all monotheists

and I asked you for an example, your example I have shown you is perfectly well explained already as the way that God was depicted in this type of art, I am still waiting to hearhow u.f.o.s enter caves, you gonna answer that question or ignore it like all the others ?

this is not our failure, its your failure to accept the answer which fits all the evidence

finally we are getting somewhere, so let me ask you, how do the painters of this type of art depict God ?

you have been demonstrating what you know and you clearly know nothing, whats worse is that you refuse to learn

if the shoe fits



sorry but thats just an outright lie on your part, you have shown no ability to interpret any ancient text correctly in any of your posts

You just proved then that the source for your alleged knowledge of ancient texts are a bunch of woo sellers, NO ancient text claims that humanity was created as a science project. Besides which, genetics proves you wrong

which historical texts are these, more from ufo.com ?

right so you can provide evidence from ancient sources of a silver metal saucer can you, I doubt it,
you are failing to understand ancient cosmology, even after it was expalined to you, the Gods lived in heaven, not the heavens, and as of yet you have not provided one single example of supporting evidence, your belief is based solely on your imagination, mine is based on years of research and study

thats why you've got yourself pwned every post in this thread

You are more confused than I thought...

You clearly don't understand the argument I am putting forward.

We know the ocean doesn't just drop off into nothing...but our ancestors may have thought otherwise... When we see a map from back then that ends abruptly, we can fill in the blanks, of what we now know.

When our ancestor drew "God" or "gods/angels", they couldn't fill in all the blanks, so we just get the edge of the map...

Things that flew, and took the form of bright lights or metallic saucers, winged things, described as emitting fire...

And what is it we are still seeing today?

The Monotheistic God, Lord of ALL...is NOT what they were really seeing. What they saw were "U.F.O's", something they 'couldn't fully identify'...

These things did things that humans back then could not, and so they levied "god" titles upon them.

Whatever U.F.O.'s are, they are capable of more than we are, so it isn't surprising that some might worship them..ESPECIALLY if they actually interacted with them to their benefit.

Now it seems that we just get tagged, released, and occasionally probed...

Our scientists do the same things to other endangered species.

---

"and the sons of God, saw the daughters of Men, and that they were beautiful, and some took wives, of which those chose...there were giants in those days men of renown."

What does that mean?

 

[Astrophotographer]

So how does winning a Nobel for “fundamental work in quantum electrodynamics, with deep-ploughing consequences for the physics of elementary particles” (wiki) make you any more or any less qualified to opine about UFOs?

Because he had scientific training and was able to reason things out. You don't win a Nobel prize for being an idiot and believe what you want to believe. His prize had to do with hard work and the scientific process.

I’ll bet you twenty dollars to a cold horse turd that if Hynek was a non-believer in UFOs you would throw his name out there and say, “This guy was involved with running Blue Book and you can’t get more qualified than that.”

Not any more than I would use Klass or Menzel. Perhaps Sagan is more to your liking? Maybe Arthur C. Clarke or Isaac Asimov would do? Hynek's bias led him down a path hoping to score some big discovery. He also involved himself in the TLP (transient lunar phenomena) effort. This was also based on anecdotal testimony. No score there either.

I’ve included this list of possible explanations for UFOs, compiled by skeptics, for you for future reference. The reason I’m doing this is to drive home a point. It doesn’t matter if you have 100 mundane explanations. Implied in your claims is that this small amount of mundane explanations (under 100) applies to tens of thousands of sightings from the dawn of man, up to and including, the present, and by extrapolating, all sightings in the future. That is an incredibly bold assumptive statement.

Your point is invalid. I have already stated there are an infinite number of possibilities. You claim there are only 10-15, which you seem to be backing away from. Each case stands by itself and each needs to be examined individually. Saying they are all Venus is just as bad as automatically saying they are alien spaceships!

 

[Astrophotographer]

And stop playing around. You know exactly the point I am making with the Joe Nickell vid. It graphically shows the narrow minded, fundamentalist mind set that is employed by the CSIOPtic type of skeptism.

Pseudo-debunkery like Joe’s pathetic, weak attempt at levitation brings into question any other acts of debunkery he may have committed with UFOs.

Since we’re on the subject of levitation, inquiring minds are dying to know what you take on it is. Can you help a brother out by commenting on it?

After seeing it was about levitation I stopped watching because it was not my cup of tea. I wasn't interested because I don't know squat about levitation. If you think Nickell screwed up, so what? If he made a mistake, he made a mistake. How does it apply to UFOs? That is my interest here and not a skeptics take on levitation.

Edit: I went back and watched the entire clip. I think Nickel is stretching it a bit on his athletic ability of a saint making it appear he is levitating. However, these are anecdotal stories and we were not there. Therefore, we can not determine if they guy actual levitated or appeared to levitate. I recall watching some magician appear to levitate on a television show. It was a trick but people who were present swore he leivitated for them. Again, I don't know anything about levitation but one has to question the story simply because of its exotic nature. Maybe he was a witch (warlock?) and not a saint.

 

[Astrophotographer]

I gave Phil Plait’s explanation for a UFO sighting, which is what the thread is asking for, and then I refuted it, and people started firing back, especially you and one or two others.

Hmmm....Let's get back to Plait. I don't recall you mentioning his name but feel free to restate how you refuted him because I missed it.

 

[Marduk]

You are more confused than I thought...

You clearly don't understand the argument I am putting forward.

thats because you don't have an argument, just a misconception

We know the ocean doesn't just drop off into nothing...but our ancestors may have thought otherwise... When we see a map from back then that ends abruptly, we can fill in the blanks, of what we now know.

ok cool so youre saying now that there are maps from the ancient world that show nothing after the land stops ?
clearly again, this is your imagination, the oldest map on earth is babylonian, and its a local babylonian map which doesn't show anything outside the immmediate area of babylonia, that was 600bce, so what maps are you talking about, got an example ?

When our ancestor drew "God" or "gods/angels", they couldn't fill in all the blanks, so we just get the edge of the map...

baloney again, theres plenty of pictures of Gods, the vast majority are fully human in form, are aliens likely to be fully human in form, perhaps youd like another attempt to provide some evidence on this after your earlier Epic Fail

Things that flew, and took the form of bright lights or metallic saucers, winged things, described as emitting fire...

there are no descriptions of anything like that in ancient texts that I've ever read, provide an example or drop it, your imagination is becoming tedious

And what is it we are still seeing today?

Disingenious, you have yet to prove that anyone in the ancient world saw anything like that

The Monotheistic God, Lord of ALL...is NOT what they were really seeing. What they saw were "U.F.O's", something they 'couldn't fully identify'...

do you have any idea how absurd your personal dogma is starting to sound, you have provided no evidence so far, I'm still waiting to hear how u.f.o.s enter caves, im still waiting for you to show me how renaissance artists depicted God, are you going to answer these questions at any point or are they too difficult

These things did things that humans back then could not, and so they levied "god" titles upon them.

again, evidence, your belief is based on your imagination not the facts as I have already proven

Whatever U.F.O.'s are, they are capable of more than we are, so it isn't surprising that some might worship them..ESPECIALLY if they actually interacted with them to their benefit.

nobody worshipped anything they couldn't identify, there were noflying saucer cults previous to the 1950s

Now it seems that we just get tagged, released, and occasionally probed...

laughable, another claim based on zero evidence

Our scientists do the same things to other endangered species.

Anal probing is not a tool used by conservationists

"and the sons of God, saw the daughters of Men, and that they were beautiful, and some took wives, of which those chose...there were giants in those days men of renown."

What does that mean?

its from the king james Bible, perhaps you should read the relevant passage from the original Hebrew bible and you'd be able to understand it, you have heard of the Hebrew bible right ?
if you had then youd probably realise what they are referring to as Giants are actually just tall people, the word giant isn't even used

4 The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0106.htm
they are even named in the original and the location of their home is also named, you'd know if you'd bothered to read it that in no instance is that home described as "outer space"
but either way, nice attempt to portray the bible as relevant, it isn't and youre now clutching at straws, this is quite suitable as your "misconception" has been a straw man the whole way through


another Epic Fail, not very kingly are you

 

[makaya325]

I think you are.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonnie_ZamoraNoNo

My mistake, thanks EHocking. I mixed up Zamoras case with another close encounter/

 

[King of the Americas]

thats because you don't have an argument, just a misconception

ok cool so youre saying now that there are maps from the ancient world that show nothing after the land stops ?
clearly again, this is your imagination, the oldest map on earth is babylonian, and its a local babylonian map which doesn't show anything outside the immmediate area of babylonia, that was 600bce, so what maps are you talking about, got an example ?

baloney again, theres plenty of pictures of Gods, the vast majority are fully human in form, are aliens likely to be fully human in form, perhaps youd like another attempt to provide some evidence on this after your earlier Epic Fail

there are no descriptions of anything like that in ancient texts that I've ever read, provide an example or drop it, your imagination is becoming tedious

Disingenious, you have yet to prove that anyone in the ancient world saw anything like that

do you have any idea how absurd your personal dogma is starting to sound, you have provided no evidence so far, I'm still waiting to hear how u.f.o.s enter caves, im still waiting for you to show me how renaissance artists depicted God, are you going to answer these questions at any point or are they too difficult

again, evidence, your belief is based on your imagination not the facts as I have already proven

nobody worshipped anything they couldn't identify, there were noflying saucer cults previous to the 1950s

laughable, another claim based on zero evidence

Anal probing is not a tool used by conservationists

its from the king james Bible, perhaps you should read the relevant passage from the original Hebrew bible and you'd be able to understand it, you have heard of the Hebrew bible right ?
if you had then youd probably realise what they are referring to as Giants are actually just tall people, the word giant isn't even used

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0106.htm
they are even named in the original and the location of their home is also named, you'd know if you'd bothered to read it that in no instance is that home described as "outer space"
but either way, nice attempt to portray the bible as relevant, it isn't and youre now clutching at straws, this is quite suitable as your "misconception" has been a straw man the whole way through


another Epic Fail, not very kingly are you

First, your entire argument is a mis-conception of what I am suggesting.

Second, you use WAY too many absolutes. Like "no one worships something they can't see/understand". People worshiped the Sun, the Moon, and stars, even when they thought the whole ball of wax revolved around us... Today we worship celebrities...until we find out that they sleep with children, or some other skeleton from a long forgotten closet.

ALL maps were complete, and modern cartography has anything to add to any old map...?

People's drawings of God from years back are 'accurate', in their depicting them in human form...?

If you think there are "no depictions" of the objects I have suggested there are, what the hell was Ezekiel describing, if not EXACTLY what I am talking about...?

'I' have NO evidence...?

I have ALL of the evidence! U.F.O's/god litter our historical record. NO ONE 'knows' everything about "God". So ANY depiction of "God" or "god" is an exercise in futility. A picture of "God" IS by definition a picture of an unidentifiable object.

EVERYWHERE, in EVERY text I have seen, read, or encountered has placed "God" or "gods" in the heavens...

In the quote you corrected me with said that "Nephilim" (an angelic order, if I am not mistaken), was "in the Earth"...where they took wives of men...

Surely this could be translates as "on the Earth, among men"...right?

So where were before this occured, if not in the heavens???

When in ANY of my retorts, did I use the term "outer space"?

Rather that respond to each and every sentence i have written here, why don't you tell me what YOUR interpretation of UFO reports throughout history, means to you? SHow me what you've 'proven'? Because I don't see anything...other than a bunch of snarky remarks...

 

[Marduk]

First, your entire argument is a mis-conception of what I am suggesting.

you haven't suggested anything except that U.F.O's identical to todays have been seen throughout history, this has proven not to be the case and you have not provided any supporting evidence, just your unqualified opinion which to be frank is absolutely worthless

Second, you use WAY too many absolutes. Like "no one worships something they can't see/understand". People worshiped the Sun, the Moon, and stars, even when they thought the whole ball of wax revolved around us... Today we worship celebrities...until we find out that they sleep with children, or some other skeleton from a long forgotten closet.

have you listened to yourself, you are saying that people worship things they can't see and evidenced it by listing the most visible things seen from earth.

ALL maps were complete, and modern cartography has anything to add to any old map...?

this makes no sense in English, please rephrase

People's drawings of God from years back are 'accurate', in their depicting them in human form...?

they drew what they believed, notably they didn't draw little grey aliens did they

If you think there are "no depictions" of the objects I have suggested there are, what the hell was Ezekiel describing, if not EXACTLY what I am talking about...?

Ezekial was describing the Chaldean Zodiac, the Chaldeans invented it and Ezekial lived in Chaldea. You need to go and compare that passage with the ceiling at dendereh. This just one more example of ignorance on your part isn't it
I have asked you repeatedly for examples that support this claim, you haven't provided any, so you have no claim to make. You have also repeatedly refused to answer any of the questions I have asked you or admitted that you are fallible at any point, This means you are arrogant and unable to answer direct questions, this damages your case. don't you realise that other people are reading this, notably noone has rushed to your support

'I' have NO evidence...?

no you don't you have based the vast majority of this on what you have imagined the facts must be, rather than actually knowing what the facts are, you tried to pass off a depiction of God as a U.F.O. then went all quiet when I proved that God was always depicted as a cloud in renaissance art and posted passages from christian texts that proved it, are you going to admit that the painter knew what he was painting yet or would you rather continue in the ignorance that you have already displayed

I have ALL of the evidence!

then why don't you present some, is it secret ?

U.F.O's/god litter our historical record.

Evidence ?

NO ONE 'knows' everything about "God". So ANY depiction of "God" or "god" is an exercise in futility. A picture of "God" IS by definition a picture of an unidentifiable object.

you are speaking from complete ignorance again, I know pretty much everything about the Gods of Mesopotamia, take a look at my Avatar, he look like an alien to you ?
Gods are most often depicted as fully human no matter what culture they are from, the exception to this rule is when they are depicted in a therianthropic style, you are claiming that a human with a lions head for example is unidentified when in fact the reasons for those type of depictions are very well known

EVERYWHERE, in EVERY text I have seen, read, or encountered has placed "God" or "gods" in the heavens...

evidence ?
I have already explained to you as simply as I could what the ancients thought the heavens were, and provided evidence in support of that from a scholarly source, your deluded and self serving rhetoric is no match for that. you are wasting my time

In the quote you corrected me with said that "Nephilim" (an angelic order, if I am not mistaken), was "in the Earth"...where they took wives of men...

You are mistaken, again, this seems to be your only consistency, the Nephilim are not angels and have never been described as such except by people like Michael Collins who like you doesn't know what hes talking about, The Anakim are the descendants of the Nephilim,
this line proves that

33 And there we saw the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, who come of the Nephilim; and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.'

the Anakim are described as tall

10 The Emim dwelt therein aforetime, a people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakim; 11 these also are accounted Rephaim, as the Anakim; but the Moabites call them Emim.

the usage of the word "Giants" in the KJV is accounted by the fact that it was translated by people who didn't speak Hebrew, so they guessed at what was being described, they got it wrong as you can clearly see by comparing the original passages with the much later derivation

Surely this could be translates as "on the Earth, among men"...right?

actually it describes events taking place in Canaan.

So where were before this occured, if not in the heavens???

They were in Canaan, it is the Hebrews who had been elsewhere, they are describing what they saw when they arrived.

When in ANY of my retorts, did I use the term "outer space"?

It is the same as you saying "Heavens", are you trying to win points on your misunderstanding basic terms now ?
that approach is doomed to failure

Rather that respond to each and every sentence i have written here, why don't you tell me what YOUR interpretation of UFO reports throughout history, means to you? SHow me what you've 'proven'? Because I don't see anything...other than a bunch of snarky remarks...

I am not posting to you, I am showing everyone else that you don't have a clue what youre ranting on about, clearly you are a lost cause, you have yet to show any proof of U.F.O's in ancient history so asking me to explain it is pointless.
I have repeatedly asked you to post evidence
I have asked you several direct questions which you have been unable to answer
I have shown that you have never studied anything from a credible source, the only link you have posted had "ufo" in its address
I have shown that you do not use original sources
I have shown that you don't understand ancient cosmology
I have shown that you don't know what a therianthrope is

I think everyone has something to bring to a discussion, unless you are prepared to post some evidence then I think in future you should bring "silence". At least that way you won't be showing everyone what laughably passes as "intellect" amongst the woo woos

btw are you older than 20 ?

 

[King of the Americas]

you haven't suggested anything except that U.F.O's identical to todays have been seen throughout history,

See. You DON'T understand or appreciate the argument I've presented.

What I ACTUALLY said was that "within many historical texts and artistic works, can be found 'similar' depictions of 'things' in the heavens/sky that could be used to describe what U.F.O. witnesses see still today."

I posted a link to centuries of artwork, ALL providing basic examples of what I suggested.

Seeing something isn't understanding it. If you don't fully understand something, as an artist, you are forced to fill in the blanks, with what you know best. Not knowing rocket or jet technology, you might call it a chariot of fire. God and or angels appear in the sky/heaven, with 'wings'...and why not birds use them to fly?

Marduk,

Providing evidence that makes you doubt something, doesn't mean you 'proved' anything.

Like posting a link or argument that 'some' used the word "heaven" to describe a mountain top, as a retort to me using the term "heavens" in exchange for "the skies". That doesn't 'prove' heaven means mountain top...

You haven't "shown" anyone anything.

Please feel free to review the images located in the link I provided. It may open your eyes to what I have suggested...

Then again, maybe because it contains "UFO" in the title, it is beneath your pedigree. Oh well...your loss.

 

[godless dave]

Like posting a link or argument that 'some' used the word "heaven" to describe a mountain top, as a retort to me using the term "heavens" in exchange for "the skies". That doesn't 'prove' heaven means mountain top...

You haven't "shown" anyone anything.

He has shown that, contrary to your claim, not all cultures believed their gods were in the skies.

 

[King of the Americas]

He has shown that, contrary to your claim, not all cultures believed their gods were in the skies.

He showed that one culture did not...

This does not prove that "heavens" doesn't mean "the skies", to the rest of history and those who wrote it.

Heaven = Sky (at least in 'most' of the cases I've encountered)

 

[Marduk]

See. You DON'T understand or appreciate the argument I've presented.,

ok obviously I'm going to have to tell you again, you haven't presented any evidence so you don't have an argument, what you have is an unsupported hypothesis

What I ACTUALLY said was that "within many historical texts and artistic works, can be found 'similar' depictions of 'things' in the heavens/sky that could be used to describe what U.F.O. witnesses see still today."

this is again supposition on your part, you have any real examples at all ?

I posted a link to centuries of artwork, ALL providing basic examples of what I suggested.

Nope, you provided a link to a laughable website which has mislabelled and misrepresented examples of well known and explained objects

Seeing something isn't understanding it. If you don't fully understand something, as an artist, you are forced to fill in the blanks, with what you know best. Not knowing rocket or jet technology, you might call it a chariot of fire. God and or angels appear in the sky/heaven, with 'wings'...and why not birds use them to fly?

See heres the thing, the artists knew what they were painting, I know what they were painting, you are the only one here who doesn't

Providing evidence that makes you doubt something, doesn't mean you 'proved' anything.

really, imo it proves you didn't know the other side of the evidence so have obviously been cherry picking things to match your belief, pseudo history authors excell at this, perhaps before making absolute statements about things you know nothing about you should consider all the evidence first

Like posting a link or argument that 'some' used the word "heaven" to describe a mountain top, as a retort to me using the term "heavens" in exchange for "the skies". That doesn't 'prove' heaven means mountain top...

again this is just your ignorance of the subject matter, all ancient cultures saw heaven as a mountain, I gave you a list, clearly you didn't bother to read it and now again are speaking out of ignorance.

You haven't "shown" anyone anything.

denial now, thats amusing

Please feel free to review the images located in the link I provided. It may open your eyes to what I have suggested...

I have seen that website several times, there isn't one example of anything that fits your description of a UFO that isn't already explained fully and well supported by evidence

Then again, maybe because it contains "UFO" in the title, it is beneath your pedigree. Oh well...your loss.

odd isn't it then that I know all the evidence of both sides of this discussion and have debated it several times over the years, often with people who knew what evidence was, you don't, thats not my loss buddy, its totally yours, youd prefer to live in a fantasy world where no one actually looks at evidence and does any research thats up to you, but don't expect any respect for it.
and of course, don't ever expect any real answers

 

[Marduk]

He showed that one culture did not...

This does not prove that "heavens" doesn't mean "the skies", to the rest of history and those who wrote it.

Heaven = Sky (at least in 'most' of the cases I've encountered)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Meru_(mythology)

Mount Meru (Sanskrit: मेरु) (also called Sumeru i.e the "Great Meru") is a sacred mountain in Hindu, Buddhist cosmology, and Jain mythology, and is considered to be the center of all the physical, metaphysical and spiritual universes. It is believed to be the abode of Lord Brahma and the Demi-Gods

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumeru

Sumeru (Sanskrit) or Sineru (Pāli) is the name of the central world-mountain in Buddhist cosmology. It is known to the Chinese as Kun Lun. Etymologically, the proper name of the mountain is Meru (Pāli Neru), to which is added the approbatory prefix su-, resulting in the meaning "excellent Meru" or "wonderful Meru".

The concept of Sumeru is closely related to the Hindu mythological concept of a central world mountain, called Meru

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Asgard

Mount Asgard is a twin peaked mountain with two flat-topped cylindrical rock towers, separated by a saddle. It is located in Auyuittuq National Park, on the Cumberland Peninsula of Baffin Island, Nunavut, Canada. The peak is named after Asgard, the realm of the gods in Norse mythology. Mount Asgard is perhaps the most famous of the Baffin Mountains

http://www.mythencyclopedia.com/Go-Hi/Heaven.html

The Taoist tradition of Chinese mythology spoke of Penglai Shan (Mount Penglai), a mountain with eight peaks. On each was perched the palace of one of eight immortal beings. Like many heavens, Penglai was described in terms of precious things: it had trees of coral that bore pearls instead of fruit. No human could enter Penglai because it was surrounded only by air.

Jewish View. The ancient Hebrew religion featured an afterlife, but it did not include a heaven or a hell. By about 200 B.C., however, the influence of other cultures had introduced the ideas of reward and punishment after death. Heaven came to be seen as a place where the righteous dead would dwell with God. Certain Jewish traditions pictured heaven as a mountain with seven tiers or layers. According to some accounts, King Solomon's throne, which had six steps leading to the throne itself, provided the model for the structure of heaven.

http://www.egyptartsite.com/glossary.html

DJEW. . This means mountain. The Egyptians believed that there was a cosmic mountain range that held up the heavens. This mountain range had two peaks, the western peak was called Manu, while the eastern peak was called Bakhu. It was on these peaks that heaven rested

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sumer_anunnaki/esp_sumer_annunaki12a.htm

In the Sumerian cosmology there was, first of all, the primeval sea (Abzu), from which was born the cosmic mountain consisting of heaven, 'An', and earth, 'Ki'.

I missed out Mt Olympus, I figured you knew already that the greeks saw heaven as a mountain, you did know that right ?

 

[makaya325]

King, please answer the question: Why arent ALL UFO depections consistent throughout history? Why do we have Metallic shaped craft today instead of dragons and gods 1000's of years ago?

 

[Marduk]

King, please answer the question: Why arent ALL UFO depections consistent throughout history? Why do we have Metallic shaped craft today instead of dragons and gods 1000's of years ago?

just like to point out that thousands of years ago dragons weren't creatures of the Air, they were aquatic.
they didn't get wings until the stories passed into the greek culture, the reason for this is most probably because the Greek word for wing "Ptera" is the same as the Greek word for flipper "Ptera", when you think about it wings and flippers perform the same function