UFO Hoaxing 101

[Fnord]

I'm having a wedding celebration and me and my new wife decide it would be romantic to release a dozen Chinese flying lanterns.
Some IDIOT who doesn't know his UFO from his elbow thinks the aliens are invading. He phones the TV station who phone the experts who ALL AGREE it's aliens.
I wake up next morning and read in the paper that 12 UFO's were spotted floating away from the town I'd just had my wedding reception in. I phone the TV station and tell them "it was our chinese flying lanterns"

Exact same scenario but we've removed the 'intent' of hoaxing.
The dumb ass UFO investigators still look like fools to me.


OK, Here's a list of criminals based upon your criteria:
Ray Santilli
Sean David Morton
John Bradley Rutter (aka Dr. Jonathan Reed)
Richard Hoagland
Art Bell
Jim Delettoso
Billy Meier
Ed Dames
Steven Greer
Carlos Diaz
Bob Lazar
Jamie Maussan
Daniel Munoz
Linda Moulton Howe
Brian Bessent

All of these UFO 'experts' and many more are participating in a big money making HOAX.

You left out Erich von Däniken ( <--Wiki link )

No greater hoaxer than he.

 

[tsig]

What other studies do you deem "...nuts..."?

---

How do you even begin to talk to someone like you?

You think that looking into the sky, in at attempt to record and identify the things you see is something it's okay to "fun or interfere with"...?

Well, your ignorance is on you, and you alone...although it would appear you have brethren.

I beg you to stop.

Stop hoaxing, and stop 'cheering' for those who do. It's beyond childish. It's wasteful, and detrimental to sincere discovery.

I am going to look in the direction, where I think I am most likely to make a find.

For you to point at a known forgery and proclaim, "Look here it is!"

...is...

Frustrating. WHY don't you go play video games, and leave me alone???

If you want to 'play', do it wit h yourself, or those who 'also' want to play. Because there are 'serious people', engaged in serious work. Your 'hoaxing' leads to the wasting our time and resources.

Please stop.

Sorry man, we didn't know it was your ox.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006020502024

 

[tsig]

Foolmewunz, funny green nose you've got there.















Somebody had to say it and I'm just trying to be the responsible adult here.

I noticed but was too polite to ask.

 

[SezMe]

OK, Here's a list of criminals based upon your criteria:

Art Bell

Art Bell made millions off his (faked) insanity. But if we include him, we have to include George Noory, his successor, as well.

 

[King of the Americas]

Just thinking that a hoax should'nt exist is not that useful as they obviously do. Surely knowing how to spot a forgery is valuable.

If you investigate something and conclude it's genuine only to find out later that it is indeed a fake, do you:

a) Ignore the evidence and still insist its real.
b) Concede the mistake and then go onto investigate the next item with no changes to your methods
c) learn from your error and apply that knowledge to your next investigation
d) learn from your error and apply that knowledge to your next investigation as well as re-evaluating prior investigations in the light of your new knowledge

BTW, I have an email from some chaps in Nigeria that may interest you, should forward it on?

"D"

Here's the thing...almost anything that you couldn't positively identify, 'might' be an as of yet not-admitted-to hoax...couldn't it?

Who's to say that someone hasn't built an ultra-light, remote control craft, capable of maneuvers that a human 'piloted' craft could not?

I mean I don't know how you can rule out a hoax, at all?

I know a dozen people who could preform a 'hoax' that you'd have great difficulty deciphering. They are called professional magicians.

But you 'know' what you are getting when you pay the price of admission.

It's the same with a 'channeling' session. You 'might' be talking with a real Atlantean...or just a good liar. "Were you not entertained?"

Randi's hoax didn't even 'charge' people for admission, so I find no fraud there.

This is quite different than inviting someone to witness something YOU say is 'real', when in fact it is your forgery.

You are in the way, and wasting time...

 

[King of the Americas]

Don't be ridiculous. Do you know that we possibly know less about the oceans than about space? Have you read The Swarm? Have you played Terror from the Deep or any other published work presenting UFOs that come out of the oceans? Have you heard about the legend of Atlantis? Who is to say there is nothing down there that, when found, could be "the next scientific discovery"?

What about time machines? What about portals? What about a medical revolution rendering us permanently immune to every kind of cancer? Who are you to state with such certainty that your field will be the next metaphorical messiah?

Indeed, I would include the 'oceans', as a place to look for "U.S.O.'s"...it is a place we have yet to explore fully. The 'frontier', the 'edge' of what is KNOWN...

This is where discoveries are made. Hell, I read yesterday that they found a new flesh eating pitcher plant, capable of consuming rats!

There are plenty of new discoveries to be made, why get in the way, or otherwise hold someone back, in any field???

 

[King of the Americas]

I'm having a wedding celebration and me and my new wife decide it would be romantic to release a dozen Chinese flying lanterns.
Some IDIOT who doesn't know his UFO from his elbow thinks the aliens are invading. He phones the TV station who phone the experts who ALL AGREE it's aliens.
I wake up next morning and read in the paper that 12 UFO's were spotted floating away from the town I'd just had my wedding reception in. I phone the TV station and tell them "it was our chinese flying lanterns"

I don't have a problem with what you did.

HOWEVER, if you- "called MUFON and all the local media outlets to a viewpoint, expecting to see UFO's", rather than explain what they really were...then you've caused a harm. You've wasted resources.

KNOWINGLY.

There's intent to deceive.

And that is my problem. Willful deceit.

 

[Fnord]

KotA,

The British government has declassified some more UFO documents.

http://ufos.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

And here's a JREF thread on the same topic.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151273

Knock yourself out.

Please.

 

[Stray Cat]

There's intent to deceive.

There's intent to show the UFO 'experts' up for their totally unscientific, belief based (no actually, most of them don't actually believe, they just want other people to think they do), complete bias towards selling a mystery around the myth that aliens visit us from outer space.

If their work was good enough for them to be able to justify the title 'expert', they would have called the object for what it actually was instead of making up nonsense to distribute to those who are gullible enough to believe it.

As it looks like you are one of these UFO 'experts' (which would fully explain your reticence to see the common sense here), perhaps you could answer the age old question of:
If these aliens are secretly visiting our planet, why do they make the really big mistake of putting LIGHTS on their covert space craft?

 

[Safe-Keeper]

HOWEVER, if you- "called MUFON and all the local media outlets to a viewpoint, expecting to see UFO's", rather than explain what they really were...then you've caused a harm. You've wasted resources.

But if I phoned my local news outlet to tip them off about a bank robbery in progress, or a beached whale, or a car accident, would they then just print the story?

If the media fails to do its job by investigating and analyzing phenomenon or phone proper experts and end up broadcasting that there are "inexplicable" lights in the sky, then that is their problem, and a hoax like the one discussed in the OP is perhaps the best way to drive this point home to the public. Furthermore, it's also "intent to deceive" from the media's part, since they oh so often slant a case towards the supernatural to up their ratings.

 

[vIQleS]

When there is a scientific investigation taking place,

No.

scientific discovery.

No.

"Ufology" to be a sincere scientific study/pursuit,

No.

that deserves to have it's observations/tests remain free of outside interference?

No.

I am going to look in the direction, where I think I am most likely to make a find.

I think you're confused as to how to do science...

Science is not about looking for evidence.

 

[Caustic Logic]

I beg you to stop.

Stop hoaxing, and stop 'cheering' for those who do. It's beyond childish. It's wasteful, and detrimental to sincere discovery.

Lol. Wake - up - call. What part of that are you missing? Discovery works best when you're still asleep?



BZZZT BZZZZT BZZZZT WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP!

And hey, I'm rooting for you guys and discovery. That's why I repeat

BZZZT BZZZZT BZZZZT WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP!

 

[MysteryMammal]

Randi's hoax was NOTHING like what the above hoaxers did.

---

Over-reacting...?

Hoaxers are willfully wasting time, and laughing about it...

The hoaxers are "wasting" their own time. They aren't forcing other people to investigate these things.

And you're pissed about government spending that also studies these things...?

Why? Why are you SO opposed to these studies? What are 'you' so afraid we'll find...?

I'm not opposed to them, personally. I just think that there are better things to spend money on.

...you and your kind...are systematically trying to derail this entire field.

WHY???

Oh you! You sure know how to flatter a girl. Like I could systematically derail anything but a Lionel train!

This is the real frontier, this is where the next super scientific discovery could happen. What have 'you' to personally gain by "interfering" with these findings???

Yeah, because it's so unlikely that physics or chemistry or biology or geology or neurology or paleontology will ever yield another super scientific discovery. As for interfering with the srs bsns people in "ufology": if people pulling a practical joke hurts them so much, they must be a real drag to hang around with.

 

[Correa Neto]

Oh, please, hoaxing damages "scientific investigation" in UFOlogy? You mean UFOlogists doing "scientific investigation"?

UFOlogists manage to take in to account the influence of Sci-Fi movies/series in sighting reports distribution?
http://www.universetoday.com/2009/08/18/report-ufo-sightings-coincide-with-popular-sci-fi-films-tv/
That would be "scientific"...

UFOlogists do manage to remove hoaxes and pranks from their databases or they just keep insisting certain data points are not false?

Sorry, hoaxing is one of the factors which help building UFOlogy (and other woostuff as well). Hoaxes as this one must be seen by UFOlogists (if they want to take their trade seriously) as blind tests. Not unlike placebos. If they can't located and remove the hoaxed datapoints, then its their own fault. Its evidence of poor methodology.

 

[Caustic Logic]

Alright, I'll concede your point, partially...

Personally, I DON'T want my time 'wasted' investigating a known forgery, as 'training'.

All such a things would 'train' me to identify is a forgery...since I DON'T think they should exist to begin with...the whole thing seems to me a practice in the waste of time.

These things waste time.

It doesn't ever have to be a complete waste. You can always learn something and learn to waste less time on dead ends. Here's a time-saver tho - start out presuming it's a hoax and you'll usually get your answer quicker.

 

[King of the Americas]

Hoaxing is childish, it wastes investigative resources, and it causes non-investigative persons to believe in a fiction.

While it may help for ufologists to sharpen their tools, there is greater harm done than good.

"Help Science, Stop Hoaxing"

 

[MysteryMammal]

Hoaxing is childish, it wastes investigative resources, and it causes non-investigative persons to believe in a fiction.

While it may help for ufologists to sharpen their tools, there is greater harm done than good.

"Help Science, Stop Hoaxing"

Could you inform me of one thing? What have ufologists actually contributed to the pool of scientific knowledge?

Also: having once lived relatively near a "UFO hot spot", I could make the argument that hoaxes (or "legitimate" sightings) help the local economy by bringing in curiosity seekers from out of town.

"Help your local economy, create a UFO flap"

 

[HeyLeroy]

Hoaxing is childish, it wastes investigative resources, and it causes non-investigative persons to believe in a fiction.

Would that be the 'fiction' that we're being visited by Greys?

While it may help for ufologists to sharpen their tools, there is greater harm done than good.

Evidence? [/CFL]

 

[Caustic Logic]

Hoaxing is childish, it wastes investigative resources, and it causes non-investigative persons to believe in a fiction.

That's a decent point. A hoaxer dedicated to education might actually create another believer needing education. For the hoaxer that's no problem since they know and can explain the hoax, but to others, what can you say except maybe it's a hoax.

FotA, have you ever been burned by a known hoax? If so what did you learn? What's one UFO case you've considered hoax for but decided against?

 

[King of the Americas]

That's a decent point. A hoaxer dedicated to education might actually create another believer needing education. For the hoaxer that's no problem since they know and can explain the hoax, but to others, what can you say except maybe it's a hoax.

FotA, have you ever been burned by a known hoax? If so what did you learn? What's one UFO case you've considered hoax for but decided against?

I've been to more than one magic show, where I couldn't fully explain/understand how the 'trick' worked. While I DO know many magic tricks and how they are performed, some stuff still stumps me. And unless the magician 'shows' me how it is done, it is likely to remain beyond my grasp...

I've 'seen' F.O.'s myself, that I positively could NOT identify, nor closely associate with any man-made & piloted craft that I have been privy to. What I saw COULD very well have been an elaborate hoax, that no one has admitted to, yet. It would have been a TOUGH hoax to pull off, for a professional magic team being paid well to perform.

While I can't rule it out, I think it is 'unlikely' given our tiny audience of two, and that there were no admissions paid...

Now, if I found out that I WAS hoaxed, the first thing I'd like to know are the details- who & how. Then, I'd like to see it demonstrated again, EXACTLY as it was performed before. Upon seeing the same things perform in a similar manner, I'd "applaud", and then offer those involved a job.

That said, I can't say being successfully hoaxed would 'change' the way I'd investigate any sightings I'm privy to in the future. I think it is tough/impossible to ever truly close the door on any U.F.O. sighting, 'potentially' being a hoax. It will always be a door I leave ajar.