Two year old abstract artist

Graphics software can take a digital photograph and, using a computer algorithm, turn it into what looks like an oil painting.

Since the program has no consciousness, and therefore no intent, is that art?
I think Slingblade called it when she observed that it isn't art until somebody decides to frame it and celebrate it as art.

Whether made by a 2-year old, by an elephant, by a computer, or by the paint mixing guy at Home Depot, if somebody declares it "art" by framing it and hanging it on a wall, by taping it to their refrigerator, or posting it on the 'net, it becomes art.

My first introduction to the pretentiousness of the art world was when I was a child, and the city sponsored a display of artworks by local artists. One of the pieces was displayed on its side (evidenced by the signature in the upper right corner). The curator was quite embarrassed when it was pointed out.
 
Art is like pornography; I know it (as the Supreme Court Justice observed) when I see it.

Most of the time.
 
Oh man, that word "art." I get a pain in my anatomy when I hear it. Is there a more useless word anywhere?

Instead of "art," let's just talk about objects. Let's talk about carvings, castings, string assemblages, mosaics, weaving, oil on canvas, acrylic on panel, etc.

In the present case, we have water-based paint on paper (at least, I hope to the great spaghetti in the sky that it's water-based; otherwise, they'll never get that kid* clean again). Are these objects pleasing to look at? Yes? No? Some of them? Can we explain why we think or feel the way we do about them as objects?

Seems to me we can find plenty to discuss without using that word "art." Excuse me, I have to find the aspirin.

*Yes, I know: a two-year-old is never clean for long.
 
Art does not require intent. I prove this by citing The Shaggs. Their album "Philosophy of the World" is an incredible unintentional avant-garde masterpiece.

No, it's not. It's total crap. Embraced by hipster-contrarians, but crap nonetheless.

It's exactly what it sounds like -- some kids who can't play the instruments given to them by their father who wanted them to be a band. Nothing more, nothing less.

The emperor has no clothes.

Ditto for this kind of "art".

Take, for instance, the canvas which Teri Horton claims is a Jackson Pollock.

If it's a Pollock, it's worth millions. If not, it's worth nothing.

That's just one example which shows that modern art is a scam, nothing more than a name game.

When you remove skill from the equation, all you're left with is a popularity contest. It's pure speculation.
 
For instance, in this case the 2-year-old's "intent" was likely to do what her parents told her to do with the paint. I find it incredibly unlikely in the extreme that this kid actually, specifically asked for paints and paper because she felt like expressing herself in some way.

Many two-year-olds will express themselves with no prompting at all, using an all-natural substance as paint.
 
Whether made by a 2-year old, by an elephant, by a computer, or by the paint mixing guy at Home Depot, if somebody declares it "art" by framing it and hanging it on a wall, by taping it to their refrigerator, or posting it on the 'net, it becomes art.
At a Los Angeles art Museum once my wife and I encountered a porcelain urinal on a wall with a label next to it. It was entirely non-descript and I've no doubt the artist did absolutely nothing but direct someone to unpackage it and hang it on the wall and affix the label. I'm not joking. Though I've got to say, it clearly started a lot of discussions about what was and wasn't art. Which I suppose was the purpose.
 
At a Los Angeles art Museum once my wife and I encountered a porcelain urinal on a wall with a label next to it. It was entirely non-descript and I've no doubt the artist did absolutely nothing but direct someone to unpackage it and hang it on the wall and affix the label. I'm not joking. Though I've got to say, it clearly started a lot of discussions about what was and wasn't art. Which I suppose was the purpose.

It was very likely a reference to Duchamp's fountain, the granddaddy of pieces that modern art haters love to get their panties in a twist over.
 
No, it's not. It's total crap. Embraced by hipster-contrarians, but crap nonetheless.

It's exactly what it sounds like -- some kids who can't play the instruments given to them by their father who wanted them to be a band. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, it is kids who can't play their instruments given to them by their father. However, they somehow were able to (unintentionally) create a fascinating polyrhythmic album. As someone who has been in a few bands, I can say it is really bizarre that they could create such a contrast between the drums and guitar without even trying.

The emperor has no clothes.

Ditto for this kind of "art".

Take, for instance, the canvas which Teri Horton claims is a Jackson Pollock.

If it's a Pollock, it's worth millions. If not, it's worth nothing.

So the Shaggs only became popular based on name recognition? If not, how is this example relevant to what I was talking about?

That's just one example which shows that modern art is a scam, nothing more than a name game.

When you remove skill from the equation, all you're left with is a popularity contest. It's pure speculation.

I honestly can't comment much on visual art, as it is not my forte.
 
Yes, it is kids who can't play their instruments given to them by their father. However, they somehow were able to (unintentionally) create a fascinating polyrhythmic album. As someone who has been in a few bands, I can say it is really bizarre that they could create such a contrast between the drums and guitar without even trying.

It's my guess they were actually trying to play in time with each other, but couldn't.
 
Graphics software can take a digital photograph and, using a computer algorithm, turn it into what looks like an oil painting.

Since the program has no consciousness, and therefore no intent, is that art?

Since when do programs boot themselves up, select tools, choose the algorhythm, and enhance the image? :p

Isn't it a person doing all that? You might as well ask, since a brush can apply paint but has no consciousness or intent, is the brush making art?
 
No, it's not. It's total crap. Embraced by hipster-contrarians, but crap nonetheless.

It's exactly what it sounds like -- some kids who can't play the instruments given to them by their father who wanted them to be a band. Nothing more, nothing less.
4' 33"
 
No, it's not. It's total crap. Embraced by hipster-contrarians, but crap nonetheless.

It's exactly what it sounds like -- some kids who can't play the instruments given to them by their father who wanted them to be a band. Nothing more, nothing less.

The emperor has no clothes.

Ditto for this kind of "art".

Take, for instance, the canvas which Teri Horton claims is a Jackson Pollock.

If it's a Pollock, it's worth millions. If not, it's worth nothing.

That's just one example which shows that modern art is a scam, nothing more than a name game.

When you remove skill from the equation, all you're left with is a popularity contest. It's pure speculation.

Yay, Piggy's posting!

The Shaggs played their instruments badly in a unique way.

Worth hearing once, for a couple of songs.


What a crock of :talk034:.

And people paid to "hear" this, I suppose. The term "rich idiots" comes to mind.

The typical music-school-and-beyond attitude toward Cage:

Enjoyed those early prepared-piano pieces.

Hey, those late violin pieces--they actually sound like music!

Good writer. Brave advocate for...something.

Cage has a minor role--sometimes his example gives music students permission to try some new things.

==========================
Now that I think about it, it's precisely that market-value aspect of art that I'm trying to avoid. If my work succeeds for me, it's because it realizes some technical ideal well enough, and makes it sound good.


Artists, more fools than knaves, usually. More Don Quixote than Don Corleone.

To challenge myself, I'm trying to think of artists and musicians whose work makes me ask the question, "Do I want to try to imitate/absorb/appropriate anything here?"

These artists represent my "live" choices.

Not Cage or Pollack. Ok, then who?

For the limits of serialism, the extreme is represented by Stockhausen and Boulez.

For rhythmic complexity, Elliott Carter.

For tuning, someone like Partch.

For balance between older and new jazz style--lines vs. honking, say--Coltrane.

People like these define my search space.
 
This isn't the same kid whose parents were doing the painting, and claiming their daughter was doing it, is it?
 
I can't help but see the parallel to gay marriage.
It really baffles me that so many people are reduced to frustration and sarcastic quotes over what other people enjoy.
If you don't like modern art, you don't have to buy any.
No one's sitting outside your window blasting Cage's 4'33" on a boom box (or are they:))

I love Franz Kline. Digital images don't do him justice, but even up close, I imagine his work wouldn't be considered "art" by many here. There was one at the MFA in Boston that I used to be compelled to stand in front of for quite a while, just struck by it. I won't bore you by what I see in it.

Art rarely claims to heal the sick or discover lost children, or break the laws of thermodynamics. The central claim is to provide an experience that some find it is worth having. I imagine no one is particularly offended that expensive food and concert tickets exist for things you wouldn't enjoy (Do you know how much Miley Cyrus tickets sold for last year? How about fungus dug up by pigs?) However it is rare that people make the leap from "I don't care for cauliflower" to "Cauliflower is a scam, anyone who likes it is deluded".
 

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