Merged Two Mosques to be built near Ground Zero

[DC]

No, no, the penultimate (I'm always on the lookout for places to use that word correctly). Actually the one marked Tribunal Courts.

comooon, use normal words, i had to look it up first, didn't know it

 

[A'isha]

It appears he's referring to the sharia-based arbitration tribunals. Unfortunately for him, that's pretty much the exact opposite of "Islamization", since said tribunals are only allowed to operate per laws established to allow binding arbitration, and only have authority over parties that explicitly agree to be bound by its rulings. Jewish Beth Din religious courts also operate under the same method.

This is also how all those courtroom TV shows operate, by the way - Judge Judy isn't acting as a "judge" on her TV show, but as an arbitrator to people who have agreed to be bound by her decision. And the key to the Islamic religious courts, Jewish religious courts and Judge Judy (and her cohorts) is that all parties have to agree to the arbitration. You will never be called before or bound by the decisions of a sharia court in the West unless you want to be, just like you'll never be called to appear before or bound by Judge Judy unless you want to be.

Now contrast that to actual courts, where if you're summoned to appear, you'd better show up or there will be trouble. The sharia tribunals aren't an "Islamization" of our Western legal system any more than the Judge Joe Brown and Judge Alex and Christina's Court TV shows are a "Judge Judification" of our Western legal system.

 

[Ladewig]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europe

Read the last paragraph.

Technically, I asked for examples in the U.S. and France (because there are none) but let's talk about Britain and the Islamification of the West (by which I assume you mean the destruction of Western institutions and the imposition of Sharia Law on everyone (please correct me if I am wrong)). Do you believe that, if unchecked, Britain is headed towards the imposition of Sharia Law on all citizens?

Lastly, what exactly would you have France and the U.S. do to prevent the destruction of the West. And a follow-up question, what should Australia do (I am assuming that the moderate Muslims are planning on taking over that country too).

 

[I Am The Scum]

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2010/August/Islamization-of-Paris-a-Warning-to-the-West/

I presume no one here sees anything wrong with this CBS news article ?
One day your grandchildren will ask why we let islamification of the West happen without so much as a whimper.

I would consider this only slightly more likely than my grandchildren asking me why I allowed the Reptilians to take over without any suspicion.

 

[Taarkin]

You would accept money from cold blooded murderers for your pet project?

Yes, I would rather have cold-blooded killers spend money on a project opposed to cold-blooded killing rather than their own pro-cold-blooded killing projects. How about you?

 

[Chaos]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europe

Read the last paragraph.

Does this paragraph, or anything else in the article, explain what the term "inman" is supposed to mean?

 

[A'isha]

Does this paragraph, or anything else in the article, explain what the term "inman" is supposed to mean?

Maybe he's afraid of the secret extremist Muslim agenda of the guy who played Mr. Humphries.

 

[marksman]

The sharia tribunals aren't an "Islamization" of our Western legal system any more than the Judge Joe Brown and Judge Alex and Christina's Court TV shows are a "Judge Judification" of our Western legal system.

I agree. In fact, I think it could be argued that the arbitral Sharia courts in the West do more the Westernize Sharia than they Islamize the West. The arbitral courts have no effect on the law in the West, but arbitral Sharia tribunals are restricted by Western arbitral laws.

The same things happened with regard to Jewish Bet Dins, which had to accommodate the fact they cannot make decisions concerning child custody, punitive damages, criminal sanctions and other measures that "traditional" Bet Dins could adjudicate.

 

[Travis]

You would accept money from cold blooded murderers for your pet project?

I sure would. The money doesn't care where it came from and if it used for something good, or at least neutral, what is the harm? And Park51 has yet to have anything about it demonstrated to be in any way bad.

Where's the feeling of outrage of such an idea?

I'd say left behind wherever you left your sense of perspective on this.

Isn't that rubbing salt into the wounds of the victims of 9/11 loved ones?

Hardly since none of the money is coming from anyone actually connected to 9/11. If it was then the FBI and CIA would be tracking it back to find out where the suspects are and then use Black Ops to snag them.

 

[GreNME]

I see amb has refused to acknowledge that I responded to his posting of the Harris article pages ago. Now he's trying to pass off a "report" (read: propaganda) from the Christian Broadcasting Network as if it were actually a real news report. The irony is that amb claims to be anti-religion, yet seems to rely very heavily on religious sites for his sources of information.

I'm spreading lies? I'm the f.......... nut job? Take a look in the mirror buddy!

You're the one posting Christian fundamentalist propaganda and then expecting us to believe that you're arguing as someone who's anti-religion.

 

[quadraginta]

I see amb has refused to acknowledge that I responded to his posting of the Harris article pages ago. Now he's trying to pass off a "report" (read: propaganda) from the Christian Broadcasting Network as if it were actually a real news report. The irony is that amb claims to be anti-religion, yet seems to rely very heavily on religious sites for his sources of information.

I'm spreading lies? I'm the f.......... nut job? Take a look in the mirror buddy!

You're the one posting Christian fundamentalist propaganda and then expecting us to believe that you're arguing as someone who's anti-religion.

Yes. You'd think he'd be a little more concerned about the sort of people who agree with him.

Especially since the point he's trying to defend is one of guilt by association (no matter how baseless it may be.)

 

[johnny karate]

If my hatred of religion, and especially islam makes me a bigot. Hey! I'm happy to wear that.

As an admitted bigot, you do realize that the U.S. Constitution should and does trump your bigotry, right?

Can I further assume you agree with governance by law as opposed to mob mentality? And that you understand that while you have the right to express your bigotry, it should and will never, ever be used as a basis for legislation?

Or is it your opinion that the citizenry should just take the law into their own hands when dealing with a group for whom their bigotry dictates hatred? (As a proclaimed anti-religionist, you should consider that question carefully.)

 

[funk de fino]

I'm spreading lies? I'm the f.......... nut job? Take a look in the mirror buddy!

Bleeding bloody hearts make me sick.

Lies and ignorance actually. A double whammy.

 

[Elind]

So loquacious earlier in the thread, and now suddenly... not.

How strange...

It's almost as if you realize you've painted yourself into a corner.

So let's review.

First you said this (bolding mine):


A statement that makes it quite clear you associate Islam with terrorism.

And then you said this:


I think it's fair to say that associating Islam with terrorism can be defined as being "critical". And yet despite the fact that you associate Islam with terrorism, you claim to not hate all Muslims.

Why?

Is it because you support terrorism?

Or is it because you fail to recognize the cognitive dissonance in holding two mutually exclusive opinions?

It must be nice for you to have a logic system that can be modified to suit your preconceptions. Come to think of it, it sounds kind of like religion.

The majority of the terrorism these days is done in the name of Allah, and it's not only against "us". That applies to terrorist "states" as well, and I have said as much before.

There is something rotten in Islam, but not in all Muslims.

My criticism of Muslims in general is that they, like you, can't see that there is something about their teachings that is particularly prone to justifying violence, or if they see it they have a handy apology for it.

Clear?

 

[johnny karate]

My criticism of Muslims in general is that they, like you, can't see that there is something about their teachings that is particularly prone to justifying violence, or if they see it they have a handy apology for it.

So... kind of like Christianity, then.

Would you oppose the construction of a church within the vicinity of an abortion clinic that was attacked by Christian extremists?

 

[Fishstick]

The majority of the terrorism these days is done in the name of Allah, and it's not only against "us". That applies to terrorist "states" as well, and I have said as much before.

[citation needed]

The FBI database seems to disagree when it comes to US domestic terrorism:

(FBI Source)
The numbers for Europe aren't very different:

(Europol source)

 

[amb]

that?

No. This.

Projections

Don Melvin writes that, excluding Russia, Europe's Muslim population will double by 2020. He also says that almost 85% of Europe's total population growth in 2005 was due to immigration in general.[19][21] Omer Taspinar predicts that the Muslim population of Europe will nearly double by 2015, while the non-Muslim will shrink by 3.5%, due to the higher Muslim birth rate.[22] Esther Pan predicts that, by 2050, one in five Europeans are likely to be Muslim.[22][23]

Professor Philip Jenkins of Penn State University estimates that by 2100, Muslims will compose about 25% of Europe's population. But Jenkins admits this figure does not take account of the large birthrates amongst Europe's immigrant Christians.[24]

Other analysts are skeptical about the given forecast and the accuracy of the claimed Muslim population growth, since sharp decrease in Muslim fertility rates[25] and the limiting of immigrants coming in to Europe, which will lead to Muslim population increasing slowly in the coming years to eventually stagnation and decline.
[from Wiki]

 

[Fishstick]

No. This.

Projections

Don Melvin writes that, excluding Russia, Europe's Muslim population will double by 2020. He also says that almost 85% of Europe's total population growth in 2005 was due to immigration in general.[19][21] Omer Taspinar predicts that the Muslim population of Europe will nearly double by 2015, while the non-Muslim will shrink by 3.5%, due to the higher Muslim birth rate.[22] Esther Pan predicts that, by 2050, one in five Europeans are likely to be Muslim.[22][23]

Professor Philip Jenkins of Penn State University estimates that by 2100, Muslims will compose about 25% of Europe's population. But Jenkins admits this figure does not take account of the large birthrates amongst Europe's immigrant Christians.[24]

Other analysts are skeptical about the given forecast and the accuracy of the claimed Muslim population growth, since sharp decrease in Muslim fertility rates[25] and the limiting of immigrants coming in to Europe, which will lead to Muslim population increasing slowly in the coming years to eventually stagnation and decline.
[from Wiki]

Is this one of those things that makes normal people go "And?" when it's supposed to be terrifying when posited by amb?

 

[amb]

It may not bother you and the lefties on this thread, but it certainly bothers me that projections are that 1 in five may be a muslim in the not too distant future.

Sharia laws anyone?

 

[Ladewig]

No. This.

Projections

Don Melvin writes that, excluding Russia, Europe's Muslim population will double by 2020. He also says that almost 85% of Europe's total population growth in 2005 was due to immigration in general.[19][21] Omer Taspinar predicts that the Muslim population of Europe will nearly double by 2015, while the non-Muslim will shrink by 3.5%, due to the higher Muslim birth rate.[22] Esther Pan predicts that, by 2050, one in five Europeans are likely to be Muslim.[22][23]

Professor Philip Jenkins of Penn State University estimates that by 2100, Muslims will compose about 25% of Europe's population. But Jenkins admits this figure does not take account of the large birthrates amongst Europe's immigrant Christians.[24]

Other analysts are skeptical about the given forecast and the accuracy of the claimed Muslim population growth, since sharp decrease in Muslim fertility rates[25] and the limiting of immigrants coming in to Europe, which will lead to Muslim population increasing slowly in the coming years to eventually stagnation and decline.
[from Wiki]

So, what do you think Europe, the U.S. and Australia should do about it?