Merged Two Mosques to be built near Ground Zero

Thunder said:
big freakin' deal. debris fell all over the place.

i got some WTC dust in my lungs, does that make me hallowed ground?
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Trivialize it,make a big ***** joke about it.You're a great man.

They want to build it,they can.I was making no judgement regarding hallowed ground.

Dude asked how close it was,I put it in perspective for him.

But it's a joke to you.

Whatever.
 
bynmdsue said:
But it's a joke to you.

Whatever.
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no, what I think is a HUGE JOKE, is so-called Libertarians and Constitutionalists demanding that Freedom of Religion & private-property rights be suspended, when it comes to Muslim-Americans.

When it comes to Muslims, looks like some GOPers and Tea-Baggers are total fascists.
 
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Thunder said:
TheDevilCried said:
I really don't see why this picture got the replies it did by a few folks, come on guys really how can you possibly compare it too pics of a bloody corpse of an abortion clinic worker ?
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easily. both pics would be meant to shock and appeal to the emotions of the onlooker.

one would seek to associate all Christians with abortion-clinic bombers, the other to associate all Muslims with the terrorists of 9-11.
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You both are (I suspect wantonly or very naively) not getting the point of why I posted that.

Read the quote I was responding to. Then try to guess whether I was posting that in support or derision of the quoted text.

I don't agree with Islam-- the whole "sky daddy" part keeps it firmly from being within my realm of belief-- but at least I understand enough about the history of Islam and it's 1.5 billion followers on the planet that I'm not about to make insipid, childish descriptions or take seriously any such attempts by others. That America's awareness of Islam and Muslims in the world increased since 9/11 is undeniable; that Americans in general have anything close to an accurate picture of Muslims is quite often debatable. Between the outright bigotry of this whole Islamic center thing and the increase GOP acrimony toward Muslims or even the milder mischaracterizations where Muslims in American film or TV tend to be one of two stereotypes-- either torn between religious and secular sensibilities or the typical terrorist characterization (durka durka)-- the concept that Muslims are for the most part regular folks just like you and me seems beyond the scope of comprehension for a vast amount of Americans. Sure, many Muslims probably have religious discussions or think about how their religious beliefs mesh with their daily lives-- probably about as often as Christians or Buddhists or Jews and so on. Most Muslims on the planet aren't even Arab or Mid-Eastern, and yet Americans conflate the two regularly. Even people who I'd otherwise say are relatively smart tend to associate barbaric practices like genital mutilation with Islam because that happens to be the predominate religion in regions where it occurs, yet that practice has about as much relation to Islam as Santaria incantations have to do with the Roman Catholic Church. It doesn't even occur to these folks that the fundamentalism that's being used by the extremist groups today is a relatively recent development similar to fundamentalist movements in other religions, or that there are actually a number of different fundamentalist movements depending on where you are regionally-- the Islamic fundamentalist movement that formed the current state of Iran is not the same as the fundamentalists that make up the taliban groups (in reality they actually oppose each other), though the talibs do have a hereditary relationship to the Muslim Brotherhood dating back to the 1960's (as well as the Wahabbist fundamentalism of Saudi Arabia, an ally of the US).

Frankly, any arguments claiming the sanctity of Ground Zero as a reason for the community center to be moved are disingenuous (at best) considering there's a strip club and an off-track betting place just as close as the community center will be, yet since those places aren't related to Muslims or Islam the folks objecting aren't raising a ruckus. As such the prejudice against Muslims and Islam being behind the objections is quite clear, which shows just how little the faulty characterization some Americans have had about Islam is not only as strong as ever, but it's making its way into a notable bloc of Americans feeling that it's acceptable to have institutional prejudice as a policy based on that anger and hate.

In all honesty, pulling a Godwin has never been more apt in the history of the internets.
 
Well Thunder thinks it is all about hate and i am sure there is some in there but personalty i just don't like religion and the way it always seems to get a free pass to do anything all the while not having to answer to anyone, try to get them to pay taxes and see were that gets ya.
 
TheDevilCried said:
Well Thunder thinks it is all about hate and i am sure there is some in there but personalty i just don't like religion and the way it always seems to get a free pass to do anything all the while not having to answer to anyone, try to get them to pay taxes and see were that gets ya.
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surely if I search through your previous posts, I will find your attacks against non-Muslim houses of worship and doctrines...right?

addition- I just read some of your mostly consistent anti-theist posts & your posts in the "Why do you hate Jesus" thread. You're cool with me bud.

:)
 
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We ain't never going to change anything here thats for sure but it's cool to have a place to vent and talk about things while learning from one another, one thing i have learned in my almost 50 years of living is if you have to dislike or hate make sure you do it equally :flamed:
 
SezMe said:
Evidence? "certain"?
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A quick mental survey of my own Manhattan neighborhood reveals many examples of bars and liquor stores nearly adjacent to churches and synagogues.

But I think there's a certain exclusion zone around churches and schools for sex establishments.
 
in my parent's neighborhood there is a liquor store a block and a half away from a synagogue.
 
The idiot bigots that oppose the mosque keep harping about how it is insensitive to context. Well I think context is always important.

So here:
Put into a spoiler because of an outstretched middle finger.

ix9flh.jpg

 
SezMe said:
Evidence? "certain"?
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From the FAQ of the New York State Liquor Authority Division of Alcoholic Beverage Control:


Are there any restrictions on the location of my premises?

Applicants for a liquor store license, wine store license and on-premises license cannot be within 200 feet of a school, church, synagogue or other place of worship.
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The Charnel Expanse said:
He is a moderate, so it's a moot point.
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The attempts to make him look like a pro-terror guy seem to be much ado about very little when it comes to "proving" he is a terrorist supporter, but they inadvertently show us something worrying about Islam in general.

For example, it was reported he attended a conference sponsored by Hizb el-Tahrir, the radical pro-terrorism group. He didn't. He attended a conference where merely some members of the group had also attended.

But think about it: if he were an obvious extremist, say if he openly danced in the streets on 9/11 and declared repeatedly the infidel USA will be destroyed, well, it would be bad news about him, but at least would explain why he's hobnobbing with Hizb al Tahrir.

But can you imagine, say, a US president (even if he weren't Black...) just happening to attend a conference where the KKK and the Aryan Nations also send representatives? Of regularly meeting with people who are openly KKK supporters?

The problem is, that in the Islamic world practically anybody in any position of social influence and importance will have tie to these groups -- since they are very powerful and influential in the Islamic world -- even if they themselves are not terrorists or its supporters.

So much for the "tiny minority of extremists" BS (which I doubt very much those who keep saying it believe). If terrorists, or bona fide terrorism and extremism supporters were indeed such a tiny minority, you wouldn't expect so many Muslims of influence to have social or economic or similar ties with them.

In this sense, this Imam's career personifies Islam's greater problem.
 
Time for a little background. There's too much generalization.
What type of Muslim is this sheikh? Sunni or Shiite? Arab or non Arab? What 'denomination' does he belong to?

This type of information would be helpful.
 
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