Turns out perjury IS illegal!

[Azure]

Can't speak for others, but I have mentioned Buehs' puppeteers by name many times - pointing out the Bush doesn't have the brains, just the evil intent.

Yes, fuel, and you're one of the better posters on here, one I respect, even if we disagree about Israel.

*I think it was you.*

 

[Azure]

Is it your position that if a govt official is asked by a reporter if a someone works for the CIA and intimates that he has already been told by someone else that she does work for hte CIA, that the govt official in question has carte blanche to confirm to thte reporter that the agent indeed does work for the CIA?

Only the first blabber has any repercussion? Do other govt officails have ANY responsibility to keep quiet and not confirm a CIA agent's identity?

Lurker

If Armitage already 'leaked' her name, how can Libby 'leak' it too.

It only gets 'leaked' once, then everyone knows about it.

Funny thing is, everyone in Washington knew who she was, and everyone knew she wasn't a NOC at the time of the outing.

In fact, one of the original writers of the intelligence protection act, said Plame doesn't qualify for protection, so outing her isn't a federal crime. Which would probably be why Armitage, Novak and Woodward are being let go, scot free.

Novak and Woodward are pros at this...I'm pretty sure if they knew Plame was an NOC, they wouldn't have published the story.

 

[Unabogie]

Funny thing is, everyone in Washington knew who she was, and everyone knew she wasn't a NOC at the time of the outing.

Cite?

Thanks.

 

[Unabogie]

In fact, one of the original writers of the intelligence protection act, said Plame doesn't qualify for protection, so outing her isn't a federal crime. Which would probably be why Armitage, Novak and Woodward are being let go, scot free.

Victoria Toensing was not one of the writers of the IIPA. She's changed her VC to only claim she was "was instrumental in winning passage" of the bill.

 

[Azure]

Victoria Toensing was not one of the writers of the IIPA. She's changed her VC to only claim she was "was instrumental in winning passage" of the bill.

Read a book.

In 1981, she became Chief Counsel to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, where she helped draft the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982.

 

[Azure]

Cite?

Thanks.

...On July 14, Robert Novak wrote a column in the Post and other newspapers naming Mr. Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, as a CIA operative. That wasn't news to me. I had been told that — but not by anyone working in the White House. Rather, I learned it from someone who formerly worked in the government and he mentioned it in an offhand manner, leading me to infer it was something that insiders were well aware of....

I said that it was widely known that - here's the exact quote - I said that it was widely known that Wilson was an envoy and that his wife worked at the CIA. But I was talking about . . . I was talking about after the Novak column. And that was not clear. I may have misspoken in October 2003 in that interview.

According to Army Maj. Gen. Paul E. Vallely..

Wilson was proud to routinely introduce his wife as a CIA employee at cocktail parties.

Take it for what its worth....but there was something on CNN today that mentioned people in Washington knowing who Plame was because of her husband.

There are also a couple articles that explain how Plame was actually outed when she married Wilson...and another article published in Vanity Fair describing Valerie.

 

[Unabogie]

Read a book.

She used to claim that, but she doesn't anymore. But look at her site. She wasn't there during the drafting of the bill, hence she changed her CV.

 

[Unabogie]

According to Army Maj. Gen. Paul E. Vallely..

Take it for what its worth....but there was something on CNN today that mentioned people in Washington knowing who Plame was because of her husband.

There are also a couple articles that explain how Plame was actually outed when she married Wilson...and another article published in Vanity Fair describing Valerie.

Great. Then it should be easy to find a single article dated before Novak's which describes her as being CIA.

Especially since the indictment states no one that knew here knew she was CIA, hence the front company Brewster Jennings.

I'll wait for your results, since I'm sure it will be simple to find, since everyone knew about it.

 

[Azure]

She used to claim that, but she doesn't anymore. But look at her site. She wasn't there during the drafting of the bill, hence she changed her CV.

Did I say I was talking about her?

I mentioned someone who was involved with the drafting of the bill....doesn't necessarily mean her.

Although out of curiosity I looked her up on Wikipedia.

EDIT: And wikipedia said she was involved with drafting the bill.

 

[Azure]

Great. Then it should be easy to find a single article dated before Novak's which describes her as being CIA.

Especially since the indictment states no one that knew here knew she was CIA, hence the front company Brewster Jennings.

I'll wait for your results, since I'm sure it will be simple to find, since everyone knew about it.

http://www.donaldsensing.com/2003/10/novak-plames-cia-status-was-well-known.html

Robert Novak wrote...

First, I did not receive a planned leak. Second, the CIA never warned me that the disclosure of Wilson's wife working at the agency would endanger her or anybody else. Third, it was not much of a secret. ...

It was well known around Washington that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA. Republican activist Clifford May wrote Monday, in National Review Online, that he had been told of her identity by a non-government source before my column appeared and that it was common knowledge. Her name, Valerie Plame, was no secret either, appearing in Wilson's "Who's Who in America" entry.

EDIT:

Media Matters for America previously noted that in two editorials in July, The Washington Times made similar claims about Plame's covert status being well known.

 

[Unabogie]

http://www.donaldsensing.com/2003/10/novak-plames-cia-status-was-well-known.html

Robert Novak wrote...

Read much?

I asked for any article dated before Novak's column, of the many hundreds to choose from, since everyone knew.

Should be a piece of cake.

Thanks.

 

[Azure]

Read much?

I asked for any article dated before Novak's column, of the many hundreds to choose from, since everyone knew.

Should be a piece of cake.

Thanks.

Her name was only made important 'after' Novak outed her. And Novak himself said she was well known around Washington to be a CIA officer.

EDIT: I'm not going to bend over backwards looking for one article that talks about Valerie Plame dated prior to July 2003. The sources I provided talk about her being well-known as a CIA agent in Washington prior to Novak 'outing' her.

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47242

 

[Unabogie]

Did I say I was talking about her?

I mentioned someone who was involved with the drafting of the bill....doesn't necessarily mean her.

Although out of curiosity I looked her up on Wikipedia.

EDIT: And wikipedia said she was involved with drafting the bill.

I saw a timeline which showed the law was already drafted by the time she arrived, hence she couldn't have written it or helped to write it. Indeed, she has removed that claim from her bio, as you no doubt read from the link I posted. However, I can't find that link, so I'll retract that claim until I can find the link.

 

[Unabogie]

Her name was only made important 'after' Novak outed her. And Novak himself said she was well known around Washington to be a CIA officer.

And yet there's zero proof of that beyond the word of people who either have interest in protecting the White House, or were directly involved in the leak and have motive to lie. Aside from the word of partisans, you have the prosecutor averring IN COURT, as an OFFICER OF THE COURT that no one knew.

And you believe the partisans because...?

 

[Azure]

I saw a timeline which showed the law was already drafted by the time she arrived, hence she couldn't have written it or helped to write it. Indeed, she has removed that claim from her bio, as you no doubt read from the link I posted. However, I can't find that link, so I'll retract that claim until I can find the link.

Which would be strange, since Wikipedia is usually on top of things.

She was on the Sean Hannity show yesterday, and he said she was involved in drafting the bill. And she never denied it.

*Oh the dread of listening to Sean Hannity...*

 

[Azure]

And yet there's zero proof of that beyond the word of people who either have interest in protecting the White House,

Still playing that game, huh?

 

[Unabogie]

Still playing that game, huh?

You sure like being obtuse. The people I'm referring to are partisans, not officials. You posted an article written by partisans. Those partisans have an agenda (whether left or right). Since they have an agenda, their simple assertions are colored by their biases.

On the other hand, you have Fitzgerald stating in court papers that no one knew. If Fitzgerald lies in to a court like that, he can be disbarred. What happens to Novak if he lies in an article? Anything? So my question to you is, why do you believe the partisans over someone with something to lose?

 

[Unabogie]

Which would be strange, since Wikipedia is usually on top of things.

She was on the Sean Hannity show yesterday, and he said she was involved in drafting the bill. And she never denied it.

*Oh the dread of listening to Sean Hannity...*

Did you likewise believe Hannity that Terri Schiavo was singing songs?

Just wondering.

 

[Azure]

Did you likewise believe Hannity that Terri Schiavo was singing songs?

Just wondering.

Did you miss the 'dread' part?

I don't like Sean, never have. But he was interviewing someone pretty important in this whole case, so I figured I would listen in.

 

[Lurker]

If Armitage already 'leaked' her name, how can Libby 'leak' it too.

It only gets 'leaked' once, then everyone knows about it.

So if a reporter comes up to Libby and says, "ARmitage told me that Plame is CIA" Libby has carte blanche to confirm that? Wow! I see a lot of reporters trying to pull fast ones on govt officials in the future. I would also question whether "everyone" knew about it after the initial leak since nothing had been published yet. Seems like Libby just trusted the reporters to be telling the truth.

And I am not considering the legality so much as the ethics. Whether someone else may or may not have leaked it ahead of you, I find it unethical for Libby to confirm the leak. Highly unethical and certainly his security clearance should be revoked.

Funny thing is, everyone in Washington knew who she was, and everyone knew she wasn't a NOC at the time of the outing.

This is sourced to a quote by Andrea Mitchell who said she was incorrect. If you have some other evidence of this please provide it otherwise it is merely a claim on your part.

In fact, one of the original writers of the intelligence protection act, said Plame doesn't qualify for protection, so outing her isn't a federal crime. Which would probably be why Armitage, Novak and Woodward are being let go, scot free.

And how does the writer have knowledge of Plame's history at the CIA over the last 5 years? Sorry, I'll trust the CIA actually asking for an investigation and Fitzgerald saying it was a crime over the author of the law who may or may not have any actual knowledge of the specifics of Plame and the CIA.

Novak and Woodward are pros at this...I'm pretty sure if they knew Plame was an NOC, they wouldn't have published the story.

Who said they knew any of this? Why would they have to know? And I don't think it is illegal for them to name her as a CIA noc so what do they have to lose?

Lurker