Oh, but we all blame Bush when something goes wrong.
Read through the threads on here...Bush lied, Bush did that, Bush did those....its always Bush.
FFS.
Oh, but we all blame Bush when something goes wrong.
Read through the threads on here...Bush lied, Bush did that, Bush did those....its always Bush.
FFS.
WTF does that say about Cheney? That he was alarmed? Big deal...the article says nothing about Cheney revealing Plame's identity.
Unabogie
Philosopher
Libby said that he and Cheney discussed leaking Plame's name on the very day Libby did it. Is that not damning at all to you?
LIBBY said it, not Fitzgerald or any Democrat or any librul hippie.
And that makes Cheney guilty?
For 'discussing' something with someone who had clearance?
Unabogie
Philosopher
They didn't discuss "something". They discussed leaking the name of a covert agent. By Libby's own admission.
Oh sorry....start a petition to indict Cheney then.
Unabogie
Philosopher
You seem to have this desire to create your own reality here.
Look, it's ok if you don't agree with liberal ideas about government. It's ok if you view the world in a different way than me. But it doesn't help anyone to pull the Sylvia Browne version of politics by trying to hide behind a panoply of lies that comfort you. The facts are the facts.
The world is not 6000 years old. Global Warming is really happening. Terri Schiavo was really brain-dead. And Scooter Libby leaked Valerie Plame's name. He admitted it. So did Ari Flescher. So did Karl Rove. So did Armitage.
And Dick Cheney was involved up to his eyeballs.
Darth Rotor
Salted Sith Cynic
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We don't know that.
I hope you are right, but I am not sure if you are or not. It was on the strength of R Cheney's work as Sec Def that I thought he'd be a good VP, and a sound source of counsel, to GWB as president when I voted for W in 2000. I was pleased to see Colin Powell as Sec State. Both of those gents let my trust down, in terms of the counsel they gave the Pres, with Cheney being IMO farther from what I expected than Powell by an order of magnitude.
FWIW, I think Dick Cheney still believes that the advice he is giving, and the counsel he provides GW Bush, is consistent with the long term interests of the US, and by long term I mean out beyond 10 years. All of the people at that level see the world very differently than us regular chaps.
I just happen, on the strength of what I have learned and seen, to feel that VP Cheney indulged in a bit too much tunnel vision. At his level, errors are magnified one hundred fold.
If his people are lying to pursue his policy direction, and the direction of advice he gives to the President, where does that leave him? Plausable deniability? That's not a position of integrity.
In the Navy, and as we have seen with the Walter Reed bit in the news lately, he who is in command is accountable for those who are his subordinates. So, VP Cheney is at least partly accountable, if not in full, for the falsehood his trusted agent indulged in during Scooter's efforts at obstruction of justice vis a vis the Wilson Plame affair. I have friends who work in intelligence, and I am not tickled with people playing fast and loose with cover for political gain, partisan political gain.
Whether hiring, or trusting, liars is a chargeable offense is another matter. This is politics, after all, so the truth isn't as important as it might be in something like firefighting, combat, or a heart surgery team's efforts in the OR.
Or is it?
DR
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Darth Rotor
Salted Sith Cynic
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Politicians have long moved away from placing the truth above all else.
Great post DR...its nice to see people on here to look away from the obvious mistakes made by the administration, and not let that effect their view on this case.
And by George, someone should sticky a thread that says Armitage, not Libby leaked the identity of the undercover CIA agent.
Great post DR...its nice to see people on here to look away from the obvious mistakes made by the administration, and not let that effect their view on this case.
And by George, someone should sticky a thread that says Armitage, not Libby leaked the identity of the undercover CIA agent.
Darth Rotor
Salted Sith Cynic
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As Martha Stewart and the Nixon crowd discovered, it's not the crime, sometimes, it is the cover up. See also McDougal and a few other luminaries, like Oliver North.
DR
I've met Ollie North before. A fine, fine man.
People can say what they want about him, I hold the greatest respect for him.
Darth Rotor
Salted Sith Cynic
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Oliver North poisoned the well for Marines getting into jobs like the one he had for some years, thanks to his involvement in a dubious undertaking. Not a few of his colleagues were unhappy with his wearing his Marine Green as a defense shield versus the Romulan-Congressional foe.
At the time of his trial, I was glad to see someone stand up to the Commie lovers in Congress, but irritated to see what a dog's breakfast had been made of that whole undertaking. This was the Cold War, and the usual problem of useful idiots being a help to the other side.
His made for TV drama smoke screen provided decent cover for some people higher up the chain. Scooter Libby's case is eerily similar, though for my money Scooter can't hold Ollie's jock: the rifle company tour in Viet Nam counts for something in my book.
That said, Ollie was skirting the edges of legitimacy, at best. At worst, matters of law and acts of Congress, and a cover up. William Casey died for quite a few people's sins, as I see it. He took his secrets to the grave.
Ollie is where he should be: on TV. Remember, he ran for public office in Va. Not a good place for him.
On the plus side, he's a solid advocate for the guys in the field, in terms of getting their story told. That too counts for something.
DR
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Can't speak for others, but I have mentioned Buehs' puppeteers by name many times - pointing out the Bush doesn't have the brains, just the evil intent.
AgingYoung
Muse
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If you lie to the press it isn't as serious as when you lie to an agency (fbi). I think it isn't a matter of the crime or a matter of the cover-up. It's more a matter of who you are.
Gene
Jaggy Bunnet
Philosopher
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Lets see, name starts with L, ends with Y, close to the most senior people in government and has some troubles related to not being entirely honest in relation to a criminal investigation....
Mmm, what could he possibly have in common with this man:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6423225.stm
Lurker
Illuminator
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Meh. North was guilty of:
1. accepting an illegal gratuity
2. aiding and abetting in the obstruction of a congressional inquiry
3. destruction of documents
I wouldn't say that was skirting the edge.
Lurker
That is a plus for him.
Lurker
Lurker
Illuminator
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Is it your position that if a govt official is asked by a reporter if a someone works for the CIA and intimates that he has already been told by someone else that she does work for hte CIA, that the govt official in question has carte blanche to confirm to thte reporter that the agent indeed does work for the CIA?
Only the first blabber has any repercussion? Do other govt officails have ANY responsibility to keep quiet and not confirm a CIA agent's identity?
Lurker