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Turkish support for ISIS

Childlike Empress said:
Qamishli border crossing is controlled by "Assad regime"™, not YPG, if that does anything to help readjust your good/evil compasses... :D
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ISIS oil fields > YPG territory > Regime border crossing > Turkey .. So Erdogan is working with Assad too? :D

Childlike Empress said:
I'm saying that with that amount of money lying on the road a lot of people decide to play. I was surprised about this alleged route as well, while the other two are well-documented. That it hurts Russia's alleged protege via the fact I mentioned kind of makes it more plausible to me, as the Russians really are in wielding-the-sword-of-truth mode now that they have the world's attention.
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The other routes still put it through YPG territory or Kurdish Iraqi territory. Would be strange to think these guys are working with ISIS and Turkey. It just shows the lack of sophistication of the Russian propaganda target audience. Like when they said they were bombing ISIS in Latakia. They could have lied and said Al Qaeda and it would at least have been a plausible lie, but they just didn't bother.
 
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crescent said:
Erdogan is about as much of a megalomaniac as Putin is.
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Most of the tales about Putin in "Western" propaganda are true about Erdogan, while many aren't true about Putin. Comparing the treatment of the two given their actions reveals "Western" hypocrisy in a nutshell.
 
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ThunderChunky said:
The rubes love the rubles.
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And Putin has become very good at exploiting the "Anti Establishment" attitude that premeates much of the Internet.
One of the Americans who quit Russia Today in the wake of the Ukraine Invasion stated that RT and Putin's Propaganda Network specfically targeted
the "Anti Establlishment " types.
 
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ThunderChunky said:
The other routes still put it through YPG territory or Kurdish Iraqi territory. Would be strange to think these guys are working with ISIS and Turkey. It just shows the lack of sophistication of the Russian propaganda target audience. Like when they said they were bombing ISIS in Latakia. They could have lied and said Al Qaeda and it would at least have been a plausible lie, but they just didn't bother.
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The eastern route through KRG is well-documented, see links early in the thread. Barzani clan cashing off. For the western route you have to look closer at where the arrow is pointing at (Med coast) and pay attention to the details of the presentation which point to the two border crossings controlled by the "moderate rebels"™ - instead of wasting your time paying attention to twitterati shills like Brown Noses (in case you did that, just guessing and not having wasted my time with their "insights" ;)).
 
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Childlike Empress said:
The eastern route through KRG is well-documented, see links early in the thread. Barzani clan cashing off. For the western route you have to look closer at where the arrow is pointing at (Med coast) and pay attention to the details of the presentation which point to the two border crossings controlled by the "moderate rebels"™ - instead of wasting your time paying attention to twitterati shills like Brown Noses (in case you did that, just guessing and not having wasted my time with their "insights" ;)).
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The arrow is pointing right through Kurdish territory. It would be strange to think the Turkish government is working with the Kurds to import ISIS oil. I don't doubt some oil reaches turkey, possibly through those routes, but the russian allegations are hilarious, just like their claims of bombing ISIS in latakia. People that bother to look at a map are not the target of this propaganda (they are going for the simple minded russians and readers of zerohedge).
 
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ThunderChunky said:
The arrow is pointing right through Kurdish territory. It would be strange to think the Turkish government is working with the Kurds to import ISIS oil. I don't doubt some oil reaches turkey, possibly through those routes, but the russian allegations are hilarious, just like their claims of bombing ISIS in latakia. People that bother to look at a map are not the target of this propaganda (they are going for the simple minded russians and readers of zerohedge).
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Well, look at the map you're talking about. "The arrow" is pointing through Efrin canton towards the Med coast ports, as I've said, but if you look closely there are little non-transparent arrows with cute little truck icons at the relevant crossings of Bab Al-Salama and Bab Al-Hawa where the actual trafficking is happening, the latter crossing dealt with in detail by the MoD presentation.
 
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Childlike Empress said:
Well, look at the map you're talking about. "The arrow" is pointing through Efrin canton towards the Med coast ports, as I've said, but if you look closely there are little non-transparent arrows with cute little truck icons at the relevant crossings of Bab Al-Salama and Bab Al-Hawa where the actual trafficking is happening, the latter crossing dealt with in detail by the MoD presentation.
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The former sending it through a rebel border crossing and the latter right through regime controlled territory into a another rebel border crossing. If this is an ISIS operation, why not just send the oil through jarabulus, which they control?
 
dudalb said:
I am suprised so many people are here are swallowing the line the Putin's Propaganda Machine is putting out hook.line,and sinker.
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People in Turkey have been raising the alarm about Erdogan's involvement with ISIS for a LONG time before Putin brought up the subject.


Putin is only bringing it up now because he is mad at Erdogan. Otherwise he would have likely ignored the subject while he tried to pull Turkey away from NATO and EU influence.

The overwhelming evidence showing Turkey's involvement with ISIS has been out in the open for years. The US has been quietly trying to address the issue behind the scenes with moderate success (pushing for Turkey to secure the border, start cracking down on oil smuggling, and stop using ISIS to attack the Kurds). While Russia has only recently begun to confront the issue.

However, the US almost completely does not publically address the issue of the Turkish support for ISIS. The US talks about oil smuggling as the main profit basis for ISIS, but never addresses Turkey's primary role in that process.


Even if Putin's reasons are emotion based for releasing information on Turkish assisted ISIS oil smuggling, the satellite and aerial evidence he has released thus far is more than enough proof to show direct Turkish involvement in the ISIS oil smuggling trade.

You can say that you don't want to pay attention to the evidence because of some political affiliation or other personal reason, but there is no valid refute of the hard visual evidence that I have seen thus far.


I'm not a fan of Putin, but I am a fan of facts.
 
HoverBoarder said:
Even if Putin's reasons are emotion based for releasing information on Turkish assisted ISIS oil smuggling, the satellite and aerial evidence he has released thus far is more than enough proof to show direct Turkish involvement in the ISIS oil smuggling trade.
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Lol no. They show images of trucks allegedly on route to turkey, that is all. By your logic, Assad, the northern rebels, and the YPG/PKK are also directly involved in the ISIS oil smuggling trade because the trucks pass through areas they control too.
 
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crescent said:
That said, groups in Syria do tend to fight each other while still managing to do business together. I have no problem believing that oil, particularly oil collected in Kurdish areas is being smuggled into Turkey. Time will tell how much (if any) involvement the Turkish government has, and if Erdogan himself has any involvement. The Russians don't seem to have made much of a case there yet, but they claim that they have more information to present.
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Russian claim in particular seems to be that the fact oil trucks go through Turkey proves his personal involvement. I'm no fan of Edrogan, but this is a rather huge leap of faith. Everything is consistent with Turkey turning a blind eye to oil smuggling, in order to defeat Assad. They also welcome the minor economic benefits in the area and the extra taxes and social peace this brings, but that's probably it.

It's telling that Russians didn't bring up anything stronger than satellite images of trucks going through Turkey. This shows their allegations of Edrogan's involvement are just wild accusations against someone they're mad at and want to punish. A pity, I'd love to see the man disgraced.

That said, the Russian foreign policy of the past two years can be described perfectly with just one word: seppuku.

McHrozni
 
HoverBoarder said:
The US has been quietly trying to address the issue behind the scenes with moderate success (pushing for Turkey to secure the border, start cracking down on oil smuggling, and stop using ISIS to attack the Kurds). While Russia has only recently begun to confront the issue.
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No, the US has been playing Turkey since the early days when they funneled weapons and Jihadi goons from freshly "liberated" Libya to Idlib province though Hatay under the eyes of that "ambassador" Stevens and the Wicked Witch of the West in 2011. BENGHAZI!

It was them who lured the silly AKP regime into giving up their good-neighbour foreign policy for a pipe dream of becoming "leaders of the muslim world".
 
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Childlike Empress said:
No, the US has been playing Turkey since the early days when they funneled weapons and Jihadi goons from freshly "liberated" Libya to Idlib province though Hatay under the eyes of that "ambassador" Stevens and the Wicked Witch of the West in 2011. BENGHAZI!
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This reminded me of a task I had on my list, finding a video I posted here in the early days of the main Syria thread. I succeeded and saved a copy. Here, from June 2011:


There are some statements you can reasonably assess to be propaganda (army providing food and water), but the context shows that this is genuine, as it was recorded while the fog was lifting on the first large-scale massacre in the tragedy, with over a hundred victims. Policemen and Soldiers. Jisr al-Shughour is in Idlib province just miles from the Turkish border and you can hear them saying where the creeps came and have been armed from (offering them to participate for money, or else, an ongoing subtext of this). A good article on that massacre (I say that not only because I wrote most of it) you can find here. The town is in the hands of the "moderate rebels"™ since summer of this year.
 
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Russia Accuses Turkey of Smuggling ISIS Oil. Turkey Replies: No, You Are.

Russia Accuses Turkey of Smuggling ISIS Oil. Turkey Replies: No, You Are.

I don't know whose claims and counter-claims are correct, but the first paragraph of the article certainly is accurate:

If the situation weren’t so tragic and dangerous, there’d be something comical in the current back and forth between Russian President Vladimir Putin and his Turkish counterpart Recep Tayyip Erdogan over which one is responsible for buying oil from ISIS.
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ETA: One of the commenters on the article had a comical but plausible assessment of the situation: Erdogan is lying about what Erdogan and the Turks are doing but telling the truth about what Putin and the Russians are doing. Putin is lying about what Putin and the Russians are doing but telling the truth about what Erdogan and the Turks are doing. Each one lies about himself but tells the truth about the other. It sounds like something from a Greek fable.
 
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Childlike Empress said:
What a moronic article. Erdogan seems to be unaware that the Russians actually left the door open for now.
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I wonder what "proof" Putin is holding back. Will it be better or worse than the pictures of Erdogan's son with Istanbul restaurant owners that he disseminated through RT?
 
ThunderChunky said:
Lol no. They show images of trucks allegedly on route to turkey, that is all. By your logic, Assad, the northern rebels, and the YPG/PKK are also directly involved in the ISIS oil smuggling trade because the trucks pass through areas they control too.
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You are not making any sense. Where do you think the hundreds of ISIS oil trucks at Turkish borders are going?
 
HoverBoarder said:
You are not making any sense. Where do you think the hundreds of ISIS oil trucks at Turkish borders are going?
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I see images of trucks, no proof that they are ISIS oil trucks, or that they crossed the syrian-turkish border. Russian has proven itself to flat out lie about things like this so there is no prove except what is directly shown in the images. Certainly there is no evidence that the turkish government is involved, which is what Russia alleges. Again, they alleged routes involved Assad regime, rebel and YPG/PKK territory, so by your logic these groups must be involved too.
 
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