Trump's Second Term

angrysoba said:
No it isn't. Not even then.

Let's recap:

1. We need Greenland to protect ourselves from our enemy, Russia.
2. EU is a bunch of freeloaders who bring nothing to the table (if you discount sending troops to Afghanistan and Iraq and providing weapons to Ukraine to fight against.... Russia!).

Conclusion: Ooooh, Vlad, so stronk! Let's be friends. I'll abandon the EU and Ukraine and make sweet love to you.....
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I'd count it as coherent under the premise of Trump trying to increase his approval rating the imperialistic way, likely inspired by Putin. Also coherent, as you say, if Trump is seeking to apply for the position of Putin's dog.
 
angrysoba said:
No it isn't. Not even then.

Let's recap:

1. We need Greenland to protect ourselves from our enemy, Russia.
2. EU is a bunch of freeloaders who bring nothing to the table (if you discount sending troops to Afghanistan and Iraq and providing weapons to Ukraine to fight against.... Russia!).

Conclusion: Ooooh, Vlad, so stronk! Let's be friends. I'll abandon the EU and Ukraine and make sweet love to you.....
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Trump recognizes Russia as a threat. Threat, he doesn't want to deal with now. He wants to (needs to) deal with China, who will most likely make their move in Trump's term. So he's abandoning the East flank. Bases on Iceland is all he needs, for at least basic defense against at the moment weak Russia. All US basses across NATO countries will be abandoned, and resources moved to Pacific. That's the idea.
 
arthwollipot said:
Russia isn't a threat to America.
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I beg to differ. It if weren't for Russia, there's a decent chance that we wouldn't have had Trump at the helm in the first place. That, alone, would be an example of the threat that Russia poses to the US.

The whole Greenland thing isn't Trump guarding against Russia, though, of course. If one accepts the at least barely plausible, albeit inane, economic/rare mineral excuse, for example, it would be China that is being guarded against, not Russia. There's no credible military excuse, of course.
 
angrysoba said:
Oh, and there is of course the irony that the new shipping lanes that are opening up are a result of climate change, a change that Trump and his party have done as much as possible to deny is even happening.
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Yes, Hegseth made a reference to melting ice but he has shut down any management of global warming and it's impact on defence in the Armed forces. It's double-think at its finest.
 
Dr.Sid said:
Trump recognizes Russia as a threat. Threat, he doesn't want to deal with now. He wants to (needs to) deal with China, who will most likely make their move in Trump's term. So he's abandoning the East flank. Bases on Iceland is all he needs, for at least basic defense against at the moment weak Russia. All US basses across NATO countries will be abandoned, and resources moved to Pacific. That's the idea.
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This still makes no sense. Why drop sanctions against Russia and attempt to bring them back in the fold in the G7?

That kind of behaviour is more likely to embolden China who are likely to see any move they make on Taiwan to blow over after an acceptable cost.

Besides, we also see that he is less interested in sanctioning China than he is sanctioning Canada and Mexico. It looks like a concerted effort to destroy any possible coalition against Russia and China.
 
Dr.Sid said:
Trump recognizes Russia as a threat. Threat, he doesn't want to deal with now. He wants to (needs to) deal with China, who will most likely make their move in Trump's term. So he's abandoning the East flank. Bases on Iceland is all he needs, for at least basic defense against at the moment weak Russia. All US basses across NATO countries will be abandoned, and resources moved to Pacific. That's the idea.
Click to expand...
I beg to differ. True to demonstrated form, Trump will capitulate to China entirely, at best ensuring that TSMC factories get blown up, if he is made aware and understands that threat. His style is capitulation to dictators to show he is a member of the big bad ruler club, one of the boys. I do agree China will make their move, most likely once Hegseth et al have lopped off enough thinking heads in the military and security agencies. The countries that must be thinking they are entirely lost as well are South Korea and Japan. Ironically, North Korea is in this sense a security barrier protecting SK from China, so there's that. Japan? So alone, the most alone of all; isolated and with no real allies that matter.

Trump's USA will, once again, show the world what being a wet noodle is all about. Meanwhile, the collapse and ruin of American leadership is leading desperate minds to nuclear proliferation.
 
Garrison said:
If they think this will save them [WHCA] they are sadly mistaken.
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I hope the don't invite King Klown to the awards presentation either. I'm sure he won't come anyway because he might get clinically roasted by serious wordsmiths who known LOTS of words, and he will get angry when he doesn't understand what they are actually saying.
 
angrysoba said:
This still makes no sense. Why drop sanctions against Russia and attempt to bring them back in the fold in the G7?

That kind of behaviour is more likely to embolden China who are likely to see any move they make on Taiwan to blow over after an acceptable cost.

Besides, we also see that he is less interested in sanctioning China than he is sanctioning Canada and Mexico. It looks like a concerted effort to destroy any possible coalition against Russia and China.
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Russia on friendlier terms is also good against China. Sanctions push Russia into cooperation with China (and North Korea). Russia and China together are the worst possibility.
 
Hlafordlaes said:
I beg to differ. True to demonstrated form, Trump will capitulate to China entirely, at best ensuring that TSMC factories get blown up, if he is made aware and understands that threat. His style is capitulation to dictators to show he is a member of the big bad ruler club, one of the boys. I do agree China will make their move, most likely once Hegseth et al have lopped off enough thinking heads in the military and security agencies. The countries that must be thinking they are entirely lost as well are South Korea and Japan. Ironically, North Korea is in this sense a security barrier protecting SK from China, so there's that.
Japan? So alone, the most alone of all; isolated and with no real allies that matter.
Trump's USA will, once again, show the world what being a wet noodle is all about. Meanwhile, the collapse and ruin of American leadership is leading desperate minds to nuclear proliferation.
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Certainly if the US essentially decides not to help out, Japan is in serious trouble.

Trump recently asked why it is that if Japan gets attacked the US are supposed to help Japan, but Japan doesn't seem to have to help the US if it gets attacked.

Is it too much Donald Trump to have heard of World War Two and the way that the US actually wrote the constitution of Japan following its defeat to commit it to renouncing war and a military? Of course, as everyone knows, Japan DOES have a military, and one that has been growing in recent years to include an aircraft carrier for F-35s. But of course, now Japan is in a similar quandary to other countries that had assumed the US was an ally. What happens when they suddenly decide not to be?

They have recently been deepening ties with other East Asian countries such as South Korea (but of course there is some lingering hostility there), and South-East Asian countries such as Vietnam, the Philippines, Indonesia, etc... and there is Australia.

Ultimately, I think Japan may have to develop nuclear weapons. It almost certainly has all the components lying around that only have to be assembled. They have rockets, nuclear power stations and plenty of technologically advanced companies.
 
angrysoba said:
Certainly if the US essentially decides not to help out, Japan is in serious trouble.

Trump recently asked why it is that if Japan gets attacked the US are supposed to help Japan, but Japan doesn't seem to have to help the US if it gets attacked.

Is it too much Donald Trump to have heard of World War Two and the way that the US actually wrote the constitution of Japan following its defeat to commit it to renouncing war and a military? Of course, as everyone knows, Japan DOES have a military, and one that has been growing in recent years to include an aircraft carrier for F-35s. But of course, now Japan is in a similar quandary to other countries that had assumed the US was an ally. What happens when they suddenly decide not to be?
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The ignorance is mind boggling. Can his administration not do any prep work on basic facts. Of course not. He never listens to anyone beyond the most shallow understanding of anything. That is apparently part of his appeal.
 
Dr.Sid said:
Indeed. He doesn't believe in coalitions. He has no plan to adhere to any contract, so he expects anyone else do the same.
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Then all the other countries in trade agreements with the USA will have no qualms moving their trade to other more negotiable clients. Japan, for example, can redirect the $145 billion it does in trade with the USA to its other biggest partners: China (already more than the USA), combined Asean countries, the Gulf countries, the EU, and Australia. I'm sure they are all willing to do serious deals like grown-ups. Sayonara Yanks!

List of the largest trading partners of Japan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Dr.Sid said:
Russia on friendlier terms is also good against China. Sanctions push Russia into cooperation with China (and North Korea). Russia and China together are the worst possibility.
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Russia benefits from the talk of the US grabbing Greenland, by force if necessary. It removes the taboo of their own grabbing of Ukraine. Putin even said in a speech that the idea of the US taking Greenland is a "serious" idea with a historical backing to it. This is already how we have seen Putin treats the idea of history being a justification for its land grab in Ukraine. And China in turn, which claims Taiwan as its own, will probably also be happy to see Trump and Putin removing the taboo around Taiwan. If Trump also has alienated his Asian allies such as Japan and South Korea, all the better.
 
angrysoba said:
Russia benefits from the talk of the US grabbing Greenland, by force if necessary. It removes the taboo of their own grabbing of Ukraine. Putin even said in a speech that the idea of the US taking Greenland is a "serious" idea with a historical backing to it. This is already how we have seen Putin treats the idea of history being a justification for its land grab in Ukraine. And China in turn, which claims Taiwan as its own, will probably also be happy to see Trump and Putin removing the taboo around Taiwan. If Trump also has alienated his Asian allies such as Japan and South Korea, all the better.
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Also can one ignore the possibility that this is a Trump/Putin scheme to get hold of Greenland's mineral resources to benefit their proxy corporate lackeys? I definitely think that this was something that was put into Trump's head by Putin and Musk.
 
angrysoba said:
That's where the incoherence comes in. There is already a military base in Greenland secured through good relations with Denmark, a country which sent more troops to fight and die for American interests in Afghanistan than America did, per capita ...
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To Trump that just means that they're losers, as well as freeloaders.
 
Susheel said:
Also can one ignore the possibility that this is a Trump/Putin scheme to get hold of Greenland's mineral resources to benefit their proxy corporate lackeys? I definitely think that this was something that was put into Trump's head by Putin and Musk.
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Ehh... Plausible as that is on the surface, there's more context that makes Musk's participation less likely. For example, that Trump tried to buy Greenland in 2019. Greenland apparently also shows up in Project 2025, albeit in a significantly more reasonable form -

Concerning Greenland, the opening of a U.S. consulate in Nuuk is welcome. A formal year-round diplomatic presence is an effective way for the U.S. to better understand local political and economic dynamics. Furthermore, given Greenland’s geographic proximity and its rising potential as a commercial and tourist location, the next Administration should pursue policies that enhance economic ties between the U.S. and Greenland.
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Putin's part is very much still on the table, of course, but that's mixed up with the Project 2025 people and him being greedy and evil, with all the diplomatic flare of a playground bully.
 
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