Trump's Second Term

[shemp]

Does trump have the right to do something like this of his own accord? Some Republicans say no, that it should have been authorized by Congress or it shouldn't have happened..

So sayeth the creators of the monster.

AOC thinks the bombing of Iran -- on trump's sole authority -- could get trump impeached.

Only in a universe that makes sense.

 

[acbytesla]

Does trump have the right to do something like this of his own accord? Some Republicans say no, that it should have been authorized by Congress or it shouldn't have happened..

AOC thinks the bombing of Iran -- on trump's sole authority -- could get trump imimpeached.

There are Republicans that are pissed as well. But I would be shocked as hell that any impeachment discussion will get any traction.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Does this mean they'll only offer Trump four of the five Nobel Peace Prizes he was going to get?

 

[dudalb]

AOC does not

I think that's going to be it. This one bombing. Trump will hassle Iran as much as he can for 3 years. It will not amount to much.

I disagree. Iran response will be unleashing it;s terrorist proxies on the US, and there will be more military action in response.

Does trump have the right to do something like this of his own accord? Some Republicans say no, that it should have been authorized by Congress or it shouldn't have happened..



AOC thinks the bombing of Iran -- on trump's sole authority -- could get trump impeached.

I think Trump has made a horrible, horriblem mistake but AOC is clueless if she thinks the present congress witll do a damn thing.

 

[dudalb]

What's so confusing? Israel has nuclear weapons and by the logic of the Cold War the best way to ensure a potential enemy doesn't use nukes is to have them yourself. Of course the fact that Israel is a nuclear power increasingly under the influence of religious extremists doesn't seem to trouble anyone in Washington, its only if the extremists are Muslims that it becomes an issue.

I see that hatred of Isreal has become Left Wing EUro dogma. as is whitewashing Iran.

 

[Norman Alexander]

I think Trump has made a horrible, horrible mistake but AOC is clueless if she thinks the present congress will do a damn thing.

I suspect AOC knows full well this congress is pointless. But she will have it on record that they should have done something, and the Dems did try.

 

[acbytesla]

Does this mean they'll only offer Trump four of the five Nobel Peace Prizes he was going to get?

He's not ever going to win the Nobel. Nominated, sure. So was Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler and many other horrible people.

 

[Norman Alexander]

I see that hatred of Isreal has become Left Wing EUro dogma. as is whitewashing Iran.

Only in your own imagination.

 

[acbytesla]

I see that hatred of Isreal has become Left Wing EUro dogma. as is whitewashing Iran.

No.

But I also don't think Israel is without sin.

This is like those that pretend their side can do no wrong. I suppose my love of America means I hate America because I recognize what the US did to Iran in 1953. Or that my country didn't have racist polices for 200 years.

 

[Blue Mountain]

With regard to the the US bombing of nuclear enrichment facilities in Iran, in my opinion it's too early to say what the long term effects will be.

I certainly do not like the imperial mentality of going into another sovereign country, one with which the USA is not at war, and destroying a facility on flimsy grounds. Just because Iran has the uranium to make nuclear weapons doesn't mean it has plans to do so. Canada might have enough uranium, too, but probably not at 60% purity.

I also doubt he did much damage to Iran's current stockpile.

That said, setting back Iran's ability to purify uranium is probably a good thing. Iran certainly isn't a peaceable neighbour.

 

[acbytesla]

With regard to the the US bombing of nuclear enrichment facilities in Iran, in my opinion it's too early to say what the long term effects will be.

I certainly do not like the imperial mentality of going into another sovereign country, one with which the USA is not at war, and destroying a facility on flimsy grounds. Just because Iran has the uranium to make nuclear weapons doesn't mean it has plans to do so. Canada might have enough uranium, too, but probably not at 60% purity.

I also doubt he did much damage to Iran's current stockpile.

That said, setting back Iran's ability to purify uranium is probably a good thing. Iran certainly isn't a peaceable neighbour.

Yes, it is too early. And bombing Iran might have been the most prudent thing to do. Still, I'm concerned about how and why it was done. Did he consult with Congress? Did he meet with the Gang of Five? My understanding is that Iran has had this much enriched uranium for quite a while. And that we have known about it for a while.

Trump's mistake in my view is that he did this unilaterally.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I keep feeling like we did this already: idiot clown president, unnecessary war in the Middle East. Have I lived long enough to actually witness history being cyclical?

 

[Minoosh]

Iran is Shia and not Arab (neither ethnically nor linguistically), so they don't have any intent on showing solidarity with Sunni Arabs. Shia are an oppressed minority throughout most of the Islamic world, Iran is the only significant Shia majority state. Al Qaeda, ISIS have actively attacked Iran and Shias. Hezbollah was a Shia militia formed from self defence groups against Sunni (and christian) groups. Shia muslim groups lived in southern Lebanon, when Israel invaded Lebanon in response to Sunni Palestinian acts, the Shia population were badly affected (including by massacres carried out by Israeli proxy forces) The occupied part of Lebanon was predominantly Shia, so Hezbollah was formed from disparate Shia organisations to become a unified resistance organisation fighting to free Lebanon from Israeli occupation. Iran supported them as co-religionists, and as an anti-colonial movement.

The relationship with Hamas a Sunni organisation is different. Historically Iran under the Shah / US hegemony was allied with Israel. The US and Israel supported the Shah and thus were opposed to the Iranian revolution and the overthrow of the dictatorship imposed on Iran when the US overthrew the democratically elected Iranian government. Philosophically the Iranian revolution had an anti-colonial element, and the struggle of the Palestinian people was seen as an anti-colonial struggle, and the support for the Palestinian resistance is thus a political not a religious issue.

In theory it should be much easier to split Iran from Hamas than Hezbollah, In either case a political solution guaranteeing the freedom and security of Palestinians and Shia Lebanese would effectively end the need for Hamas and Hezbollah as military organisations.

Israel has provoked much sectarian violence, even including some support for ISIS, in particular supporting Christian militias in Lebanon who carried out massacres of Palestinians and Shias. Israel also has funded and armed sectarian terrorist groups in Iran. Israel has also supported Kurdish nationalist groups in Iraq and Syria. So I don't think there is a good case for Israel reducing sectarianism in the middle east.

Thank you, I did not know all that. My broader point was that post-revolution Iran - the leadership - has relied on having external enemies to shore up its identity. Israel itself was not founded on colonialism. The fading colonial power of Great Britain desperately wanted Jews NOT to settle in Israel. But the more extreme Zionists were not against terrorism when it suited their purposes and they *won*. It was a little bit of a war, and they won, and they kept winning, militarily. Attacking Israel has never worked. The other side suffers ten times or a hundredfold the damage done to Israel.

How much of Gaza or the West Bank could you simply buy for the amount of treasure spent in the obviously losing strategy of try to getting Israel to move somewhere else?

TBH I have absolutely no idea who holds the right to what land. Does anybody? And does it matter? Israel conquered it. They've done some very shady stuff, but defending yourself when you are attacked is legit and it's not unusual to pick up land.

But they've done a lot of just messed-up things. I learned a few days ago they'd replaced any Palestinian they could with migrant labor from Thailand or India. See, I think that is low-key its own kind of genocide. Making lives worse and worse, choking off opportunity. This is not the way to treat a whole ethnicity. I figured out that mathematically, the maximum number of Palestinians that actually voted for Hamas could not be greater than 6 percent of the current population.

Anyway. I hope not many Iranians were killed.

It is a complicated country that fascinates and baffles me. I visited in 2003. The people were great. Iran was even low-key a U.S. ally at the time.

I am relieved that (I hope) we did not hit any cultural targets.

Which ... why on Earth was Trump telling them to evacuate Tehran?!

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Lawmakers are only pissed that they weren't allowed to prove that they, too, would have attacked another country for no good or honest reason.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

I used to play the boardgame Diplomacy A Lot with my friends, and the rule was that no matter your beef with anyone, you always gang up on the single most powerful player until he's no longer the most powerful.

What the US and Israel are doing is destroying the (always fake) power balance between Israel and Iran that allowed Arab Nations to pretend that they are about to completely dominated by a Jewish Nation with the support of a Christian One.

Looks like Netanjahu will get his wish of everyone uniting against Israel, overtly or covertly.

 

[dudalb]

Now reports that the attacks were on iranian nuclear power Plants, but the underground facalities have not been damaged.
Anybody who thinks Iran is not going to strike back, probably with it's terrorist allies, is living in la la land.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

We are in la la land: attacks are self defense, retaliation is a war crime.

 

[Minoosh]

This stuff has always made me wonder. Is the politician doing something because they have a deeply held belief? Or is he doing it because it serves his personal political aspirationsl?

Trump is almost certainly right in that he is never going to win the Nobel Peace Prize. And if Obama had not been awarded the Nobel, Trump probably wouldn't care about it.

I'm sure you're right. As for the first paragraph most politicians probably convince themselves they're doing both.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Now reports that the attacks were on iranian nuclear power Plants, but the underground facalities have not been damaged.
Anybody who thinks Iran is not going to strike back, probably with it's terrorist allies, is living in la la land.

Now now, clearly Lord Trump has taken a page from Putin's book and declared that retaliating after an unprovoked attack is terrorism and will be met with even more force.

 

[acbytesla]

I'm sure you're right. As for the first paragraph most politicians probably convince themselves they're doing both.

I'm not sure I agree. Some of them for sure. I hope it's not most.