Cont: Trump’s Coup - Part 2

[Random]

And I have great respect for him for this, if for nothing much else in his career.



Yet Trump himself didn't back it. He slunk away. He went home and packed.

The legal wranglings had nothing coup-ish either. They begged the courts. The courts said nah. Trump complied.

Do you guys not get that that is actually the opposite of a coup??? They tried to work the system within its rules (comically), and submitted to the courts authority. Coups, um...don't care much about the legal process, pretty much by definition.

Trump supported the Eastman plan, he was saying till the end that Pence should back the play. Still says it now last time I checked. The Eastman plan would not have needed the courts (except for the inevitable rubber stamp from the 6-3 Republican Supreme Court). Pence would just throw out enough Biden votes so neither side had a majority, then hand it over to the House where a majority of Republican state delegations would give the win to Trump. Sure it would be procedural poppycock, but what would the Dems actually be able to do about it?

A coup doesn't need a mountain of dead bodies, just an unlawful seizing of power.

 

[Thermal]

Don't leave out his personal appeals to the Georgia governor to "find" the votes to make him the winner and his continued entreaties to invalidate votes for Biden in other states (by recount or legislative fiat). Attempting to disrupt congressional validation of the election by using his ignorant/evil supporters was, as you say, just one part of the plan...the attempted coup.

And the Gov gave him a hearty FU and Trump slunk away.

The thing is, this one part is closer to an actual coup attempt than any of the rest. This was at least threatening to do something undemocratically to seize power.

If Trump had acted, and sicced prosecutors on the GA Gov, that would have actually been an attempt.

But unlike many here, I don't think threatening phone calls with no follow-through an attempted coup make.

 

[Thermal]

Trump supported the Eastman plan, he was saying till the end that Pence should back the play. Still says it now last time I checked. The Eastman plan would not have needed the courts (except for the inevitable rubber stamp from the 6-3 Republican Supreme Court). Pence would just throw out enough Biden votes so neither side had a majority, then hand it over to the House where a majority of Republican state delegations would give the win to Trump. Sure it would be procedural poppycock, but what would the Dems actually be able to do about it?

A coup doesn't need a mountain of dead bodies, just an unlawful seizing of power.

Yes. I know. What a coup does need is the actual attempt. No one had the balls, least of all ex-Pres Trump, to make an actual attempt. Scurrying around the edges of it, sure. A threatening phone call here, a court filing there, rabble-rousing on J6 and running home.

Doesn't matter what Trump supported, or how many legal maneuverings were denied. Push come to shove, they never took that critical step to actually attempting to seize power. Beg, file, cajole, threaten, rabble rouse, but no action that would accomplish the end.

 

[Random]

And the Gov gave him a hearty FU and Trump slunk away.

The thing is, this one part is closer to an actual coup attempt than any of the rest. This was at least threatening to do something undemocratically to seize power.

If Trump had acted, and sicced prosecutors on the GA Gov, that would have actually been an attempt.

But unlike many here, I don't think threatening phone calls with no follow-through an attempted coup make.

Because Trump is a coward at heart. He would never specifically tell someone to do something illegal, instead speaking like a mafioso and just letting people around him know what he would like to happen. If it happens, it happens. The Georgia call was just like that if you listen to it. He never comes out and says it, because that would be illegal, he just drones on and on about how great it would be if it happened. Everyone on the phone call knows what he wants, but no one wants to be the first to say it.

 

[Thermal]

Because Trump is a coward at heart. He would never specifically tell someone to do something illegal, instead speaking like a mafioso and just letting people around him know what he would like to happen. If it happens, it happens. The Georgia call was just like that if you listen to it. He never comes out and says it, because that would be illegal, he just drones on and on about how great it would be if it happened. Everyone on the phone call knows what he wants, but no one wants to be the first to say it.

Agreed, completely. Which is why I don't worry to much about him, nor thought he would even go along with a coup if it happened. He is all bark, no bite.

Im worried about a smarter, more charismatic and eloquent sociopath who is taking notes, and re-direct Trump supporters. That bodes ill.

 

[Wudang]

People who keep arguing it wasn't an attempted coup because it wasn't a coup really need to work on their grasp of the word "attempted".

 

[Thermal]

People who keep arguing it wasn't an attempted coup because it wasn't a coup really need to work on their grasp of the word "attempted".

And posters who argue that it was an "attempted coup" need to work on their grasp of both words.

Insurrection is not a coup attempt. They are different things, like assault and battery are different things. Its all a question of calling a spade a spade, instead of a rake.

 

[thaiboxerken]

And posters who argue that it was an "attempted coup" need to work on their grasp of both words.

Insurrection is not a coup attempt. They are different things, like assault and battery are different things. Its all a question of calling a spade a spade, instead of a rake.

It most definitely was an attempt to overthrow the election and re-instate power to Trump. There is also a large amount of evidence showing that this attempt was coordinated and well funded.
Also, the attempt isn't over. The GOP continues their efforts to this day.

 

[dirtywick]

lol it's been nearly a year and still splitting hairs on whether it was technically a coup or another word in a thesaurus

 

[Paul2]

The violent mob was only a part of the coup attempt. Trump was aiming for a paper coup, with his legally bonkers plan of having Pence throw out the Electoral votes of multiple Democratic states, then having the state delegations vote Trump into office. The mob was just there to put pressure on the Republicans who didn’t want to go along with it (many were fine with it though).
Pence held his ground though, so the mob just made a mess and looked horrible.

The coup minimalists want us to focus on the loonies who stormed the capitol (who could have never realistically taken over the country), and dismiss the wacky legal shenanigans of Eastman and the rest (who could have taken over the country, at least on paper). But they were part and parcel of the same overall plan. Create a legal ****-storm, use the existence of the legal ****-storm to justify keeping Trump in power.

This makes the rioters part of the coup even if they didn't know it.

 

[Stacyhs]

Nit - not everything. Obstruction of Justice comes to mind. There is no attempted obstruction of justice. Attempting it without success IS obstruction of justice.

Nit picked but true!

 

[Paul2]

And posters who argue that it was an "attempted coup" need to work on their grasp of both words.

Insurrection is not a coup attempt. They are different things, like assault and battery are different things. Its all a question of calling a spade a spade, instead of a rake.

Coup d-etat:

especially : the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group

Insurrection:

a usually violent attempt to take control of a government

They are not mutually exclusive.

ETA: Source was Merriam-Webster online

 

[Stacyhs]

Oh, believe me, I'm not expecting you to agree. I'm a "Woo", after all. Don't let me interrupt all of this brilliance and hyperbole taking place.

In the meantime, me and my vast network of woomasters will continue to call this the "Capitol Riot", like most other grounded people and media do. For whatever nefarious reasons.

Avoidance noted.

 

[Stacyhs]

Because Trump is a coward at heart. He would never specifically tell someone to do something illegal, instead speaking like a mafioso and just letting people around him know what he would like to happen. If it happens, it happens. The Georgia call was just like that if you listen to it. He never comes out and says it, because that would be illegal, he just drones on and on about how great it would be if it happened. Everyone on the phone call knows what he wants, but no one wants to be the first to say it.

This is exactly what Michael Cohen says is Trump's M.O. He never says directly what he wants in order to have plausible deniability.

 

[Upchurch]

Holy ****, you're saying someone carried a gun illegally in the United States and did nothing with it? Jesus Christ, alert the Press! That's a coup for sure!

You’re being dishonest here, or you reacted without reading the article. The man was very clear about his intentions and what prevented him from carrying them out. It also very much contradicts the notion that the insurrectionists were all talk.

Perhaps you should try to understand what is being said instead of falling back on all the theatrics.

 

[Stacyhs]

And posters who argue that it was an "attempted coup" need to work on their grasp of both words.

Insurrection is not a coup attempt. They are different things, like assault and battery are different things. Its all a question of calling a spade a spade, instead of a rake.

You'd better write the publisher of the Thesaurus because, according to you, they've got it wrong:

synonyms for insurrection · coup · insurgency · mutiny · revolt · revolution · riot · sedition · uprising ...

Your attempts to minimize what happened are noted. You do realize that Mazza admitted he would have killed Pelosi with his loaded gun, don't you? Hmmm...maybe you don't since it's obvious you didn't read the Politico article.

An Indiana man charged with carrying a loaded firearm to the Capitol on Jan. 6 told investigators that if he had found Speaker Nancy Pelosi, “you’d be here for another reason,” according to court documents posted over the weekend.

Mark Mazza, 56, is the latest of about half a dozen Jan. 6 defendants charged with bringing a gun to the Capitol. In this case, Mazza allegedly carried a Taurus revolver known as “The Judge,” which is capable of firing shotgun shells — two of which were in the chamber, along with three hollow-point bullets. A Capitol Police sergeant obtained the weapon after allegedly fending off an assault from Mazza.

“I thought Nan and I would hit it off,” Mazza told investigators as they prepared to finish their interview. “I was glad I didn’t because you’d be here for another reason and I told my kids that if they show up, I’m surrendering, nope they can have me, because I may go down a hero.”

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

No, not all coups involve the military. That is why some coups are called "military coups."

But now we're getting somewhere. All we have is a disagreement on the definition of coup. I suggest that we use the mirriam/webster definition of "coup d'etat," which is "a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics
especially : the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group."

Do you agree to this definition? Do you agree that, by this definition, Jan 6 was a coup attempt?

Yes.

 

[Warp12]

You'd better write the publisher of the Thesaurus because, according to you, they've got it wrong:

synonyms for insurrection · coup · insurgency · mutiny · revolt · revolution · riot · sedition · uprising
Your attempts to minimize what happened are noted. You do realize that Mazza admitted he would have killed Pelosi with his loaded gun, don't you? Hmmm...maybe you don't since it's obvious you didn't read the Politico article.

Damn, all those words mean the same exact thing, regardless of context and relative details? Cool. I'll always remember the many coups of the summer of 2020. And especially the mutiny in Kenosha.

I hate to tell you this, but just because some psycho wanted to whack crypt keeper Pelosi, that doesn't make it a coup, either.

People here are clinging to this "Coup" nonsense because it somehow helps bolster their internal outrage over Trump. It's so ridiculous that it hasn't even taken hold in the media to any large degree. And that should tell you everything you need to know.

 

[Stacyhs]

Damn, all those words mean the same exact thing, regardless of context and relative details? Cool. I'll always remember the many coups of the summer of 2020. And especially the mutiny in Kenosha.

I hate to tell you this, but just because some psycho wanted to whack crypt keeper Pelosi, that doesn't make it a coup, either.

People here are clinging to this "Coup" nonsense because it somehow helps bolster their internal outrage over Trump. It's so ridiculous that it hasn't even taken hold in the media to any large degree. And that should tell you everything you need to know.

Awwwwwww....you're almost cute when you try so hard to spin things your way.

Quack...quack...quack...

 

[Upchurch]

Yes. I know. What a coup does need is the actual attempt. No one had the balls, least of all ex-Pres Trump, to make an actual attempt. Scurrying around the edges of it, sure. A threatening phone call here, a court filing there, rabble-rousing on J6 and running home.

Doesn't matter what Trump supported, or how many legal maneuverings were denied. Push come to shove, they never took that critical step to actually attempting to seize power. Beg, file, cajole, threaten, rabble rouse, but no action that would accomplish the end.

Trump literally tried overthrow a legitimate democratic election up to and including provoking a violent mob attack on Congress and the Vice President as a means to interrupt and prevent the certification of his opponent’s win. An attack that, in some cases, made it within feet of where those congresspeople were. At the same time, he was trying to convince states decertify that same election based on nothing more than he didn’t win.

What more do you actually want to have happened in order for it to be an attempted coup? It literally fits every definition provided.