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Cont: Trump’s Coup - Part 2

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Reminds me of those exhaustive lists of "vote fraud" that contain only examples of (attempted, but discovered and punished) registration fraud, electoral fraud, campaign fraud, etc. Most of which are actually forms of the candidate/campaign committee running afoul of the rules.
 
Warp12 said:
I registered online and they sent me a ballot. At that point, anyone can harvest it from the mail, or, as I joked, I can trade it to my neighbor for a 6-pack.
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How many extra votes can someone get with that one ballot?

Warp12 said:
My state does not practice signature matching.
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Which state is that?

How many ballots can you get them to send you in the mail?
 
Warp12 said:
Yeah, I think you missed the point. Yes, when I registered, the info was checked. Once they mailed out the ballot, there is nothing after that. My neighbor, or anyone else could fill out that ballot and return it.
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Again, how many fraudulent votes can one person get stealing mail?

Your mail in ballot is identifiable. Report not getting it, you'll get another but the stolen one has a number on it and that can be recovered and rejected.
 
Warp12 said:
Is your contention that no one is willing to break the law to sway an election?

You know that the ACLU and others have made an issue out of signature verification being unjust, along with ID requirements?

I guess there is no level of verification that is acceptable. Probably phoning votes in is the best choice.
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So one extra vote right?
 
Pixel42 said:
Signature verification is unreliable and may be used in, shall we say, a less than even handed manner.

As long as sufficient alternative verification checks are built into the process, signature verification should not be necessary.
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When GW was in office the governor's race here in WA State was very tight, within a hundred or so votes. So the Republicans moved to check the sigs in King County, a Democratic stronghold. They challenged numerous signatures. My Libertarian neighbor's sig was flagged.

He thought it was the Democrats that flagged it until I explained the GOP sig checkers had to do the whole county not just votes for one of the 2 candidates. They notified him he had 2 days to go in person to the registration office to verify his sig. He went but needless to say some challenged voters wouldn't take the time to do that, especially if they had to go during work hours.

That led the GOP to claim there was massive fraud in King County. There wasn't but the point was moot. They tried to use that fact to challenge the election. They wanted the Bush appointed AG McKay to charge the county with fraud or something. The problem was, the GOP only looked at one county. The AG noted that had they looked at sigs in every county they would have likely found just as many sigs to challenge.

Again, these were not fraudulent votes. These were people who registered to vote sometimes decades earlier and their sigs had changed over time. Had that not been the case the GOP could have followed up and checked on those challenged voters who hadn't gone in to verify their sigs. The GOP of course didn't because they knew the sig challenges were specious.

Back to McKay, he stood up to the nonsense and became one of the 8 AGs GW fired. All 8 of them had refused to do something that would affect the election outcomes: IOW AGs who wouldn't cheat for the GOP.
NPR Timeline: Behind the Firing of Eight U.S. Attorneys
May 11, 2006: Sampson e-mails White House official William Kelley: "Please call me at your convenience to discuss ... the real problem we have right now with [San Diego U.S. Attorney] Carol Lam that leads me to conclude that we should have someone ready to be nominated on 11/18, the day after her 4-year term expires."

The Los Angeles Times reports that Lam's corruption investigation of Republican Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham has expanded to include another Republican congressman from California, Jerry Lewis....

Dec. 7, 2006: The Justice Department dismisses seven U.S. attorneys: Daniel Bogden of Nevada, Paul Charlton of Arizona, Margaret Chiara of Michigan, David Iglesias of New Mexico, Carol Lam of San Diego, John McKay of Seattle, and Kevin Ryan of San Francisco....

March 6, 2007: Former U.S. attorneys testify before Congress. Some say they believe they were fired for political reasons.
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For the details on the political reasons behind the firing of the 7 AGs plus 1 more later: Wiki: Dismissal of U.S. attorneys controversy
The controversy surrounding the U.S. Attorneys dismissals was often linked to elections or voter-fraud issues. Allegations were that some of the U.S. Attorneys were dismissed for failing to instigate investigations damaging to Democratic politicians, or for failing to more aggressively pursue voter-fraud cases.[3][35] Such allegations were made by some of the dismissed U.S. Attorneys themselves to suggest reasons they may have been dismissed.[36] ... In September 2008, the Inspector General for the Department of Justice concluded that some of the dismissals were motivated by the refusal of some of the U.S. Attorneys to prosecute voter fraud cases during the 2006 election cycle.[9
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Now why would Republican GOPs refuse to investigate voter fraud? Because they stood by the oaths they took not to file false charges that were politically motivated.

You can read the specifics here.

Now that's where one can find election fraud, coopting the DoJ for political prosecutions. GW was obvious though he denied it and threw a couple people under the bus to take the sword for him, Dump was blatantly unapologetic for using the DoJ for his political gain.
 
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W.D.Clinger said:
Of course not. Donald Trump was willing to break the law to sway an election, and remains willing to this day.

On 6 January, thousands of Trump's supporters were willing to break the law to sway an election. More than 500 of them have been charged in DC federal court.

Which brings us back to the topic of this thread.
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Yes it makes me sad I didn't stop it, I thought about calling homeland security the moment I heard Jerome Corsi in a video, stating Donald Trump would Trigger the Insurrection act, and the Military would take control of the Capitol.
I knew then his idiot followers were going to try and Trigger that.
One phone call to homeland security and I might have stopped this.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
If your neighbour stole your ballot and decided to commit a federal crime by using it how is that a problem with the system and not a problem with you neighbour?
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The basic logic is that we should take away the voting rights of thousands (or else make it next to impossible to vote) because some people might get away with fakery.

Like making it illegal to go to a store because you might be a shoplifter.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Again, how many fraudulent votes can one person get stealing mail?

Your mail in ballot is identifiable. Report not getting it, you'll get another but the stolen one has a number on it and that can be recovered and rejected.
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Many of the bogus voter fraud stories coming from the Trump cult seem to completely ignore the fact that mail in ballots each have a unique identifier, and that, among other things, this prevents ballots from being counted twice or more, and makes introduction of fake ballots difficult, if not impossible. In Colorado, which is all mail-in, each ballot has a bar code. So the stories about a big stack of ballots being run through the counting machine multiple times (which can actually be legitimately done if some of the ballots don't get read; the system will make sure none get double counted) or truckloads of fake ballots being delivered in the dead of night, don't actually even pass the laugh test.
 
W.D.Clinger said:
Of course not. Donald Trump was willing to break the law to sway an election, and remains willing to this day.

On 6 January, thousands of Trump's supporters were willing to break the law to sway an election. More than 500 of them have been charged in DC federal court.

Which brings us back to the topic of this thread.
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Exactly right. The largest and most disgusting attempt at election fraud in American history is Trump's Big Lie. With any luck he'll pay for his crimes.
 

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Delphic Oracle said:
That isn't what I said at all.

That isn't what Pixel42 said at all. But now it occurs to me why you suspect subversion from others.
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This is the method of operation of certain posters: misrepresent what is actually said and then sealion the conversation when the poster points it out.
 
Warp12 said:
I registered online and they sent me a ballot. At that point, anyone can harvest it from the mail, or, as I joked, I can trade it to my neighbor for a 6-pack.
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Ah...so now it was all 'a joke'. No. It was a lie and I was right to say I didn't believe you.

Warp12 said:
Worked the same way for my neighbor, after I traded him my ballot for a 6-pack. I admire the integrity of the process, as I am sure you do. :thumbsup:
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Stacyhs said:
I don't believe you. That's a pile of crap.
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Warp12 said:
I wasn't worried too much about it, tbh. I got my votes in, and then some. My roommate works at the post office, and he culled some extra ballots. So, free 6-pack. Win-win.

Great process. :thumbsup:
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Another lie, we can presume? What you're doing is spreading misinformation about mail-in voting just like Trump and his allies. The fact is that there has been NO evidence of any substantial voter fraud with mail-in voting and no more than with in-person voting which isn't substantial either. In fact, most illegal voting isn't 'fraud' at all but simple mistakes or ignorance. Another fact: Oregon has done exclusive mail-in voting for decades with almost no fraud cases. Another fact: Utah has done mail-in voting for a decade with virtually no fraud cases.
 
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