Cont: Trump’s Coup - Part 2

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varwoche said:
During and after the election, a number of posters (me included) described Trump's actions as an attempted coup, and as a serious threat to US democracy. Some of us also characterized Trumpism as fascistic. Some of y'all thought this was reactionary. Nevermind the Trumpists among you -- I cede to your impermiability. I'm curious though what Skeptic Ginger, Thermal, and other sane posters think about General Milley's take on things.

Top US general warned of ‘Reichstag moment’ in Trump’s turbulent last days
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Gen. Milley was right. Does anyone here really think that if the insurrectionists on Jan.6 had succeeded in capturing the members of Congress and then declared that Trump was being reinstated as POTUS, that he would have condemned them? Hell no. Or if a group of extremists in the military had attempted a coup, that he would have condemned them? Hell no. He'd be declaring what patriots they were. Why? Because he's freaking NUTS.
 
varwoche said:
During and after the election, a number of posters (me included) described Trump's actions as an attempted coup, and as a serious threat to US democracy. Some of us also characterized Trumpism as fascistic. Some of y'all thought this was reactionary. Nevermind the Trumpists among you -- I cede to your impermiability. I'm curious though what Skeptic Ginger, Thermal, and other sane posters think about General Milley's take on things.

Top US general warned of ‘Reichstag moment’ in Trump’s turbulent last days
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Not surprised at all. I think (if anyone cares to check) you'll find my POV at the time was that Trump could not carry out a coup without the military and it's as unlikely a real hell that said top military leaders would back his coup.

And with that POV I said it isn't a coup because he doesn't have the military with him. That's just a semantical difference.
 
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Stacyhs said:
I remember the conversation. I also said our military would not support a Trump coup.
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my hope is that the Trump years have created a lasting rift between the Top Brass and the top Republicans - the Generals have learned that they will get no help from the GOP when they need it most.
 
Stacyhs said:
I remember the conversation. I also said our military would not support a Trump coup.
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I recall it as well. And I’ll repeat my sentiment then, which I think still holds:

While I doubt the military at large would support a coup, a single rogue general (think Michael Flynn or the fictional Buck Turgidson from Dr. Strangelove) commanding a tank battalion, let’s say, could have made for a horrific standoff at the Capitol or White House. The number of veterans in the 1/6 crowd should give anyone pause.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
I recall it as well. And I’ll repeat my sentiment then, which I think still holds:

While I doubt the military at large would support a coup, a single rogue general (think Michael Flynn or the fictional Buck Turgidson from Dr. Strangelove) commanding a tank battalion, let’s say, could have made for a horrific standoff at the Capitol or White House. The number of veterans in the 1/6 crowd should give anyone pause.
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There are definitely extremists in the military but there is no organization among them. They aren't organized into a military unit that would come under the command of some rogue general like Flynn that could be utilized quickly in a coup. What you'd have are individuals who might try and join a coup but they couldn't bring the power of the military itself with them.
 
Stacyhs said:
There are definitely extremists in the military but there is no organization among them. They aren't organized into a military unit that would come under the command of some rogue general like Flynn that could be utilized quickly in a coup. What you'd have are individuals who might try and join a coup but they couldn't bring the power of the military itself with them.
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Exactly. And the idea none of the other generals would stop such an action is ignorant. How does a single military leader in this country on their own have the ability to command a specific unit of soldiers? Not likely. Much as Dump thought he could do that, we really are not a Banana Republic.

Dump appointed all those questionable civilian military heads but Millie proved the military was not under the control of Dump's idiots.

Sadly I do believe the investigation of 1/6 could show Dump's civilian appointments are why backup was so slow to come to the Capitol.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Exactly. And the idea none of the other generals would stop such an action is ignorant. How does a single military leader in this country on their own have the ability to command a specific unit of soldiers? Not likely. Much as Dump thought he could do that, we really are not a Banana Republic.

Dump appointed all those questionable civilian military heads but Millie proved the military was not under the control of Dump's idiots.

Sadly I do believe the investigation of 1/6 could show Dump's civilian appointments are why backup was so slow to come to the Capitol.
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yeah, but the Generals should remember that they had to stop Trump, when it would have been the job of the Republican Leadership to do so - when they did the exact opposite.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
yeah, but the Generals should remember that they had to stop Trump, when it would have been the job of the Republican Leadership to do so - when they did the exact opposite.
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True. I despise the GOP leadership for not only allowing Trump to take over the party, but for actively encouraging and facilitating it. They could have rejected him TWICE, but instead chose their own agendas over country. They are cowards and morally bankrupt.
 
Stacyhs said:
True. I despise the GOP leadership for not only allowing Trump to take over the party, but for actively encouraging and facilitating it. They could have rejected him TWICE, but instead chose their own agendas over country. They are cowards and morally bankrupt.
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Did they "choose" it or were they simply invaded and taken over?

Obviously now some of them are cowed into subservience because of fear of being primaried.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Did they "choose" it or were they simply invaded and taken over?
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Long before the Republican primaries for 2016, I heard pundits like Laura Ingraham saying that if another "Establishment Republican" was nominated, the party would face a revolt from "real Republicans". There were definitely people pushing for something different, although I don't know if they were pants-on-head insane yet at that point.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Did they "choose" it or were they simply invaded and taken over?
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I flip back and forth on this. Even in my lifetime I remember time when the Republicans, as wrong as they always have been, at least weren't functionally crazy.

But at the same time they've always opposed intellectual standards to the point that being taken by some populist demagogue was pretty much inevitable.

And for all the talk of this or that Republican "opposing Trump" it was always symbolic gestures and they rolled over at the first sign of real resistance.

Susan Collins spent the entire four years of the Trump Presidency being super-concerned about Trump doing the thing she was voting to let him do.

A few of the old guard; Romney and McCain and the like, would very, very occasionally make some real opposition to him, but very rarely and very ineffectively.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Did they "choose" it or were they simply invaded and taken over?

Obviously now some of them are cowed into subservience because of fear of being primaried.
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I used to buy inth othe hostile takeover theory, but no longer. The GOP was ripe for a Trump takeover.
 
Belz... said:
I don't think those are mutually exclusive.

My take on it: as soon as the GOP embraced the Southern Strategy in the 60s they set themselves on an inevitable path to Trump, and worse.
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Yup, Trump lacked the integrity of Nixon
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Did they "choose" it or were they simply invaded and taken over?

Obviously now some of them are cowed into subservience because of fear of being primaried.
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Yes they 'chose' it because they chose to allow the takeover by not voting guilty in the impeachment trials...especially the second one. By finding him guilty and then voting to never let him hold office again, they could have reduced his influence. They are cowards.
 
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