Cont: Trump’s Coup - Part 2

[angrysoba]

I see some of the protestors have been arrested,namely guy who sat in Pelosi's chair as one. Just wondering,considering security and police stood back and let them enter what can they be charged with?

Domestic terrorism.
They could also get ten years under that executive order that Trump himself signed to punish people defacing Federal monuments and property. He thought it was something he could use to lock up BLM protesters but hilariously it will end up incarcerating his own mob.

 

[dudalb]

What a clear example of how someone can become a radicalised extremist and a threat, it’s rare that we get to see how it happens.

Sad journey.
When she joined the Air Force she took an oath (it's the same for all branches of the US Military...same one I took when I joined the US Army) to preserve, protect and defend the Constiution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. SHe ended up being one of those enemies. Tragic.

 

[Distracted1]

whatever point you're trying to make is pretty easily dismissed by calling this a summary execution.

I concede.
Referring to a killing at the hands of LEO while a crime is being committed (however minor) as an "execution" is such a comically biased term that it destroys the argument that is behind it.

I shall henceforth treat it that way.

 

[acbytesla]

And there are reports that Laptops are missing form Pelosi's officed.
This might indeed be espionage. Putin would be happy to pay money to get his hands on those.

Pelosi said they were seldomly used and merely for presentations.

 

[Vixen]

I haven't seen a picture of her climbing through the window, so I'll accept that she was doing so with an enormous backpack on. Was the thought she had a bomb in the back pack? I do not understand otherwise the association between a back pack and her needing to be shot in the face.

She was a US Air Force Vet which indicates she had military training in carrying out manoevres. That was no prank her climbing through that window with a back up crowd.

 

[Paul2]

Yet so many groups believe they have the absolute, inside scoop on it.

which doesn’t invalidate anyone knowing the actual truth. You might as well reject evolution as the truth because some other group like creationists think they have the truth. You’re not going to go all postmodern on me now, are you?

To have certainty would require omniscience- which a Forum like this exists (at least originally) in denial of.

Who said anything about absolute, 100% certainty? But < 100% certainty does not mean you don’t accept that which is 99% surely true.

 

[dudalb]

Pelosi said they were seldomly used and merely for presentations.

Which is good news. SOme of laptops much have had sensative data on it.

 

[Darat]

The private company was levying taxes?
I should educate myself more about the incident.

How can that be linked to the events on 6th January?

 

[Vixen]

Well, the guy who sat behind Pelosi's desk was arrested.

The dolt was interviewed in a video and his acute moronity is revealed when he brags he left her a message saying, 'here's your quarter you bitch'.

Brain dead. Dur.

 

[Olmstead]

I guess people just weren't on the same page. Everyone had been screaming about overturning the election by force, and some people came prepared for that with zip ties and weapons, but it seems most of them just went there to have some boisterous fun. Shame on the officer for taking them at their word and responding as if they had planned to overturn the election by force.

 

[Distracted1]

How can that be linked to the events on 6th January?

Both incidents could have been justifiably stopped through the application of force.

 

[Distracted1]

I guess people just weren't on the same page. Everyone had been screaming about overturning the election by force, and some people came prepared for that with zip ties and weapons, but it seems most of them just went there to have some boisterous fun. Shame on the officer for taking them at their word and responding as if they had planned to overturn the election by force.

Indeed. One goes from (mostly peaceful) protestor to (mostly peaceful) rioter when the glass starts getting broken.

 

[Vixen]

Look at all those MAGA Civil War 1-6-21 sweatshirts, they are what fans of Marvel films would wear to a premier of the latest Marvel movie. It is like I say above what privilege is all about.

Everybody at that Save America rally knew that Trump was there to whip up fake claims of election fraud. He was psyching them up like Muhammad Ali before a fight. These people had travelled three thousand miles across America. They were not there to hang about in the rain for four hours.

OK so maybe two-thirds were just Trump fanatics. The hardcore were far right wing survivalists and neo-fascists.

No way were they there for innocent reasons.

 

[Vixen]

I would hope they are sworn to uphold the law, and protect all people regardless of race, sex, religion or job.

Not the secret service agents. They are there only to defend the senators. Full stop. Period. The job starts and ends there.

 

[Vixen]

I would accept Molotov cocktails as bombs. Were there Molotov cocktails thrown in the capitol? (I'd better go and google that before darat sends me another helpful link.)

ETA
No Molotov cocktails thrown in or at the capitol?

Writers of The Secret Service Training Manual, please note: a Molotov cocktail must be thrown first before you exercise any defence of your subject.

Personnel MUST wait at least fifteen minutes to see whether a whole mob comes rushing at you before you fire a defence shot.

BY ORDER OF THE MANAGEMENT

 

[rdaneel]

She was a US Air Force Vet which indicates she had military training in carrying out manoevres. That was no prank her climbing through that window with a back up crowd.

As a US Air Force vet myself, I just want to say that just because she was in the military doesn't necessarily mean she's had training in "maneuvers".
I worked in an office, I know squat about "maneuvers".

 

[cosmicaug]

Are you trolling?

I do recognise that many of these people were armed. I think the second amendment is stupid and this is a direct consequence of the second amendment, indeed one can say this was the justification for the second amendment. But a key thing (one that one can hear in every dubious shooting of a black man by a LEO) "once you draw your weapon like that, you have to defend yourself with deadly force." No, a police officer drawing a weapon does not mean that by merely drawing his weapon he is justified in using it.

You are the plainclothes officer at the other side of the door.

That woman breaks through.

You do what now?

10 seconds later, while you are doing whatever it is that you think should have been done (instead of stopping her), you have another dozen people who have gone through. What happens now?

Oh, by the way, you have congress folk on the the same side of the door as you are and it's your job to protect them.

They were not a radical political group

They are a "group" (loosely speaking) of people radicalized over the last 5 years who had been told by at least 2 people who have the ear of the POTUS that at least one person on the other side of that door needs to be executed by firing squad. Some of them probably have the same mindset as the group who was planning to kidnap the governor of Michigan a while back. They are radicalized people who, in their own incompetent way, thought that they were there to install as president someone who was not elected to the office for the 20th of January. Believing in nonsense can be a dangerous thing (and they do and they are). These are not people on a tour of the grounds.

As it turns out, we now have records of online discussions about bringing restraints and apprehending "traitors". As it turns out, we have photographs of this assault on the Capitol building showing that at least two people were equipped with such restraints (one of them appears have been identified and seems to be ex-military).

who took hostages and entered into negotiations, they were not political activists who occupied the capitol with a lock in.

They did not take hostages because they did not gain access to the people who they would have targeted as hostages. They did not gain such access because they were stopped, at that doorway, from entering that hallway (as well as, initially, at the front door of the chamber).

But your argument here seems to be that they should have been allowed in because no one knew that they were not good people?

 

[Vixen]

I think the window was only big enough for one person, (with a large back pack), pepper spraying her or tasering her halfway through effectively blocks the hole?

You think smashing a thick heavily reinforced window at Capitol in a restricted area and then attempting to scramble through it is an ordinary every day action by any old member of the public?

 

[Darat]

As a US Air Force vet myself, I just want to say that just because she was in the military doesn't necessarily mean she's had training in "maneuvers".
I worked in an office, I know squat about "maneuvers".

Apparently she had training and had duties that involved protecting buildings when she was in the airforce. She probably knew more than most what the reaction to a perimeter being breached entails.

 

[Distracted1]

Are you trolling?



You are the plainclothes officer at the other side of the door.

That woman breaks through.

You do what now?

10 seconds later, while you are doing whatever it is that you think should have been done (instead of stopping her), you have another dozen people who have gone through. What happens now?

Oh, by the way, you have congress folk on the the same side of the door as you are and it's your job to protect them.



They are a "group" (loosely speaking) of people radicalized over the last 5 years who had been told by at least 2 people who have the ear of the POTUS that at least one person on the other side of that door needs to be executed by firing squad. Some of them probably have the same mindset as the group who was planning to kidnap the governor of Michigan a while back. They are radicalized people who, in their own incompetent way, thought that they were there to install as president someone who was not elected to the office for the 20th of January. Believing in nonsense can be a dangerous thing (and they do and they are). These are not people on a tour of the grounds.

As it turns out, we now have records of online discussions about bringing restraints and apprehending "traitors". As it turns out, we have photographs of this assault on the Capitol building showing that at least two people were equipped with such restraints (one of them appears have been identified and seems to be ex-military).



They did not take hostages because they did not gain access to the people who they would have targeted as hostages. They did not gain such access because they were stopped, at that doorway, from entering that hallway (as well as, initially, at the front door of the chamber).

But your argument here seems to be that they should have been allowed in because no one knew that they were not good people?

Your argument seems to be that killing her was done as a way to set an example to the other people who might have attempted to follow her through the window. Further, since there were bad actors about, it was possible that she was planning more than what she already was doing (trespassing).

That is putting a whole lot of decision making latitude into the hands of the LEO, no?

Not that I am necessarily against that, it just has not been the predominant sentiment on this Forum for some time now.