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Cont: Trump’s Coup - Part 2

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shemp said:
That cop deserves a medal and a promotion. The cops who took down barricades and let people in, and who gave directions to offices and posed for selfies, should be fired, prosecuted, and spend the next 10 years in prison!
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Why are so many people hung up over the selfies? What if the cops who posed for selfies had less hostile crowds, and the mad dogging weekend warriors were the ones who got overwhelmed? I don't have any evidence either way, but it's not obvious to me what happened.

During BLM, obviously, there were cops who took a knee. Later on they'd beat the **** out of protestors. That could be the case here as well.
 
Cain said:
Why are so many people hung up over the selfies? What if the cops who posed for selfies had less hostile crowds, and the mad dogging weekend warriors were the ones who got overwhelmed? I don't have any evidence either way, but it's not obvious to me what happened.

During BLM, obviously, there were cops who took a knee. Later on they'd beat the **** out of protestors. That could be the case here as well.
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It's be hilarious if the selfies turned out to be a sting job. "Hey, yeah, that's a great one! Upload it and tag me on FaceBook!" "Pssst...Sarge! Add another one to the warrant list!"

You just know they'd fall for it.
 
Cain said:
Why are so many people hung up over the selfies? What if the cops who posed for selfies had less hostile crowds, and the mad dogging weekend warriors were the ones who got overwhelmed? I don't have any evidence either way, but it's not obvious to me what happened.

During BLM, obviously, there were cops who took a knee. Later on they'd beat the **** out of protestors. That could be the case here as well.
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Somewhere around here is a video of a cop waving the insurrectionists through those bike rack barriers; he needs to be gone, and right quick.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
I watched the video where the woman was shot and went down. One of the trumpers could be heard yelling "why did they have to shoot her?".

It's all fun and games until the cops don't understand that your coup attempt is just innocent LARPing :rolleyes: .
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Ultimate entitlement; these idiots really, really imagined they had every right to violently enter the Capitol, and put everyone there in danger because their dear leader said it was fine. There have to be consequences for these morons.
 
Cain said:
Why are so many people hung up over the selfies? What if the cops who posed for selfies had less hostile crowds, and the mad dogging weekend warriors were the ones who got overwhelmed? I don't have any evidence either way, but it's not obvious to me what happened.

During BLM, obviously, there were cops who took a knee. Later on they'd beat the **** out of protestors. That could be the case here as well.
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Because the selfies were taken on the Capitol grounds. It was illegal for those people to be on Capitol grounds. Those cops were taking selfies with people in the process of actively committing a crime.
 
pgwenthold said:
I ask because Elizabeth from Tennessee admitted that she was attempting to have a revolution.
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Presumably Elizabeth does not speak for all Animaniacs and much less the Warner siblings: Yakko, Wakko, and Dot. Surely they are innocent!
 
Venom said:
Probably not too relevant but the policeman was also a Trump supporter.

He died fighting the same people the man he supports inspired.
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Not that your story isn't believable....

But do you have a reference to show that that was the case (that the policeman was a Trump supporter)? I've tried googling it, but just come up with general articles about the riot.
 
Darat said:
Is there any evidence at all that she was executed?
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No. There's no evidence that she was executed.

It's bad that she was shot but that officer was protecting a retreat route for legislators as well as access to the locations where they were retreating to. She was one person breaking through but it would have reasonably looked to that officer like if she had she broken through a mob would have followed her.

Now you have a mob with access to legislators and Pence. No one should want that particular situation to happen and, in fact, at that moment that officer's job was precisely to avoid that situation. Taking a chance of that happening would have risked being an extremely poor choice (to make a gross understatement).
 
Segnosaur said:
Not that your story isn't believable....

But do you have a reference to show that that was the case (that the policeman was a Trump supporter)? I've tried googling it, but just come up with general articles about the riot.
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https://heavy.com/news/brian-sicknick/

His twitter account has a picture of Trump's plane. I think they locked the account.
 
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Resume said:
Somewhere around here is a video of a cop waving the insurrectionists through those bike rack barriers; he needs to be gone, and right quick.
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I've got to wonder if that's a real cop, or if real, not an actual Capitol Police cop.

He's all by himself. He's running toward the barricades with no other cops around. His uniform doesn't look like what the Capitol Police were wearing.

It's also possible that he is waving somebody in the crowd forward, not meaning the entire crowd. e.g. going to find a medic and get them in.

Investigators will be able to figure out some of those answers. If he really is a Capitol Police officer it should be possible to ID the guy and yes, if he is doing what he appears to be doing he will at least be fired and probably be charged.
 
Meadmaker said:
I've got to wonder if that's a real cop, or if real, not an actual Capitol Police cop.

He's all by himself. He's running toward the barricades with no other cops around. His uniform doesn't look like what the Capitol Police were wearing.

It's also possible that he is waving somebody in the crowd forward, not meaning the entire crowd. e.g. going to find a medic and get them in.

Investigators will be able to figure out some of those answers. If he really is a Capitol Police officer it should be possible to ID the guy and yes, if he is doing what he appears to be doing he will at least be fired and probably be charged.
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I've seen a slightly longer video that wasn't any more informative; I'd like to think that the cops was waving for other cop to follow him, but . . .
 
Planigale said:
I would disagree. I think no one deserves to be executed. The description of climbing through a window does not sound like she was an immediate threat to life. It should have been possible to subdue her using non lethal force. I do note the responsible officer has been suspended.

I understand the 'emotional' issue, the violation some US citizens feel. But this was a few protesters who broke into a public building. This happens all the time. They did not even organise a sit in! They did not line people up against the wall and shoot them; that is what happens in real coups.

Shooting demonstrators in the streets is what happens in third world countries, the outcome of the policing here was good one person shot is one too many. I am not sure what happened to the police officer who died, all that is said it was injuries occurring during the protest, this might mean he fell down stairs. Perhaps someone here knows the nature of his injuries?

That does not mean I support Trump or these right wing nut cases, I would politically be a Saunders supporter. But even right wing nut cases should not be shot down. Police violence does not become right when it is against your political opponents.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/01/semi-naked-climate-protesters-disrupt-brexit-debate
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She was part of a mob. Including people like this:
ErI1ne4XMAICBGy.jpg

It's entirely justified violence to shout at a mob to fall back, and then when one tries to come into the room you're sheltering potential hostages, to fire a single shot.

The protestors were not playing. Some were just idiots, but enough were full on terrorists.
 
slyjoe said:
https://heavy.com/news/brian-sicknick/

His twitter account has a picture of Trump's plane. I think they locked the account.
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That heavy article has a link to a video that I had not previously seen of the police getting overwhelmed at one of the barricades.

https://twitter.com/KySportsRadio/status/1347031398176223233?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1347031398176223233%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fheavy.com%2Fnews%2Fbrian-sicknick%2F
 
Planigale said:
I would disagree. I think no one deserves to be executed. The description of climbing through a window does not sound like she was an immediate threat to life. It should have been possible to subdue her using non lethal force. I do note the responsible officer has been suspended.

I understand the 'emotional' issue, the violation some US citizens feel. But this was a few protesters who broke into a public building. This happens all the time. They did not even organise a sit in! They did not line people up against the wall and shoot them; that is what happens in real coups.

Shooting demonstrators in the streets is what happens in third world countries, the outcome of the policing here was good one person shot is one too many. I am not sure what happened to the police officer who died, all that is said it was injuries occurring during the protest, this might mean he fell down stairs. Perhaps someone here knows the nature of his injuries?

That does not mean I support Trump or these right wing nut cases, I would politically be a Saunders supporter. But even right wing nut cases should not be shot down. Police violence does not become right when it is against your political opponents.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/01/semi-naked-climate-protesters-disrupt-brexit-debate
Click to expand...

No one should be "executed" but that isn't what happened. An armed mob mounted an insurrection on the Capitol while our political leaders were conducting the transition of power. And a police officer defending that process shot a member of that mob.

What do you think they should do? Open the doors and end democracy?

I'm a peaceful guy, but there is always a point when you have to stand up.
 
Darat said:
Is there any evidence at all that she was executed?
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I suppose this all depends on definitions. Merriam-Webster 'a putting to death especially as a legal penalty'. She was deliberately put to death. If she was climbing through the window she was of no immediate threat to anybody. Was she armed? I don't know, does anyone here? I still rest with the issue that non-lethal force was available. The potential of what someone else might do is not justification for killing another person. Killing her to discourage others is not a justification for homicide. I would be happy to substitute 'homicide', 'murder', 'kill'.

I do recognise that many of these people were armed. I think the second amendment is stupid and this is a direct consequence of the second amendment, indeed one can say this was the justification for the second amendment. But a key thing (one that one can hear in every dubious shooting of a black man by a LEO) "once you draw your weapon like that, you have to defend yourself with deadly force." No, a police officer drawing a weapon does not mean that by merely drawing his weapon he is justified in using it.

I think posters here do not know what terrorism is. Terrorists would have roamed the corridors shooting everyone they saw, terrorists do not target. This was not terrorism. They were not a radical political group who took hostages and entered into negotiations, they were not political activists who occupied the capitol with a lock in. I have heard no report that a single shot was fired by these rioters*. (I may be wrong and if so I anticipate a stream of corrections.) They stole a podium.

If police officers (or anyone else) were assaulted then the individuals concerned should be prosecuted. I do not defend attacking a police officer with an extinguisher (I have not seen a report of this, but I am sure that the poster who said this knows this as a fact, and I accept this). But this does not justify killing other people.

These maybe horrible neo-nazi scum but they need their rights defended in the same way as every other human.

I think it is deeply sad the police officer died, however it happened. I think it is sad that others died who perhaps might not have had there not been a riot. I am not sad a weirdo right wing Trumpist woman died, but I still thinking shooting her in the face when she was climbing in through a window was unnecessary. I know 'stand your ground' is a US thing, but I do not think this is a reason for killing someone.

ETA
* Within the capitol
 
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