Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
Cont: Trump’s Coup - Part 2
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Oh, stop being so dramatic!
It is ridiculously dramatic, you have to admit. I'd be more concerned about the next social justice mob torching my local Dollar General than a massive right-wing insurgency and ensuing Civil War.
The Great Zaganza
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if you want to have a Democracy, it's important that ideological violence is balanced.
And that means fight right-wing terrorism on all levels and/or stepping off the neck of anything looks vaguely like social and community organizing and unionising.
The reason why so many Republicans support Trump is because they literally fear for their lives if they don't - as Pence and so many others have experienced first hand.
And Democrat Progressives such as the Squad are under constant threat of violence.
Looks like we desperately need some rebalancing here if we want politicians not to cave in to threats of violence all the time (the NRA business model).
And that means fight right-wing terrorism on all levels and/or stepping off the neck of anything looks vaguely like social and community organizing and unionising.
The reason why so many Republicans support Trump is because they literally fear for their lives if they don't - as Pence and so many others have experienced first hand.
And Democrat Progressives such as the Squad are under constant threat of violence.
Looks like we desperately need some rebalancing here if we want politicians not to cave in to threats of violence all the time (the NRA business model).
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This has to be one of the most ridiculous statements ever. I don't know how you can type that without laughing.
Republicans themselves have expressed precisely that thought.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/11/peo...says-gop-lawmaker-on-going-against-trump.html
You have a very liberal interpretation of what "so many Republicans" means. Does this include just a small theoretical number of politicians, or the vast number of say, 70+ million people that voted for Trump?
Rather than fearing for their lives, I suspect the politicians are doing what they feel puts them in favor with their constituency. Like most politicians do.
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The Great Zaganza
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"Hang Mike Pence!" rings a bell?
What do you think would have happened if the Jan6 mob had caught a Representative, as they almost did?
You said the reason that "so many Republicans" support Trump now is that they fear for their lives. You haven't provided any evidence to support that. It is pure fantasy.
The Great Zaganza
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I have. So have others.
You just refuse to listen, because it goes against your worldview.
Does this trigger you?
You just refuse to listen, because it goes against your worldview.
Does this trigger you?
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Parsman
Muse
It isn't just their lives they fear for. It is their privileged and entitled way of life they fear for. They see a huge demographic and social change coming to the country. They worry this incoming tide will sweep them away. So they try anything that may halt or turn back these changes. Once this resistance would have been through democracy, the ballot box and the legal system. Now increasingly it is being done with violence, the threat of violence, gerrymandering and exploiting weaknesses in the legislative systems to introduce laws restricting people's ability to effect change in the system. Old rich white men, possibly like yourself only richer as they always are, exploit these fears and it is as much that as fear of physical harm or death that is at work today.
Fast Eddie B
Philosopher
Maybe.
But I don’t think it’s just the “privileged and entitled” way of life they might fear giving up. It’s more losing any semblance of even a normal life, knowing that speaking out against Trump will be accompanied by harassment and death threats. Have you heard some of the vile recorded threats against legislators, just for the “crime” of voting for an infrastructure bill? Were I an election official or politician here in very red Tennessee, I’d think long and hard about taking positions that would result in death threats against me and my family.
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Crazy Chainsaw
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No the Military would not act in that manor, that does not change the fact that the Coup planners thought they would and attempted the Coup based on that Belief.
Crazy Chainsaw
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I criticized Trump and His PHD. ADVISOR Jerome Corsi and Republicans Tried to kill me is that not proof enough?
According to Thermal, Jan 6 doesn't qualify because there wasn't a coordinated objective. And the threats against Raffensperger don't qualify because there was no action behind it.
Except Jan 6 had actions behind it. And there was a clear objective behind the Raffensperger threats.
This is a clear example of deconstructing the coup attempt, and selectively dismissing the bits and pieces as if each bit represents the entire effort.
Except Jan 6 had actions behind it. And there was a clear objective behind the Raffensperger threats.
This is a clear example of deconstructing the coup attempt, and selectively dismissing the bits and pieces as if each bit represents the entire effort.
Huh? This doesn't make one whit of sense. Elected officials abuse their power on a regular basis, enabled by their offices, despite that there is no abuse power inherent in those offices.
(1) Trump drew the target on Raffensperger's back before the tape was released. (2) If you think the ambient threat level is in the same league compared to when the POTUS draws a target, you're denying obvious reality.
Thermal
August Member
Realy trying to leave this, but in the interests of trying to clarify this:
This is a great example of you debating with voices in your head. I do not hold the position that "it couldn't happen here". In fact, I am concerned that it very well could, with the right leader. The Trump presidency was a major wake-up call for me, regarding how palatable neo-fascism is for a lot more Americans than I would have thought. But DJ Trumpy-Trump is not that leader, and this was not that set of circumstances.
No, no, a thousand times no. I am not scrutinizing the pieces and saying that they do not make a whole. I simply disagree on the nature and motivation of the actions, individually and collectively.
I think they skirted around the edges of a coup and kicked the tires a little, but none have the conviction, will, or even the flat-out balls to actually *do* anything to actually make it happen. This is a meek and tentative crew; they all cower back and kind of hope someone else will take the ball. Its a team with an ineffectual quarterback. They can't score a point because the QB won't do anything to make it happen.
Returning to the meta point: you, too, are simply refusing to hear what you don't want to hear. We have a difference of opinion regarding motivations of others. You are as confident in your assessment as I am in mine. Mine, however, need no constant reconstruction after the fact to backpedal from coup to attempted coup to incompetent coup attempt. Mine hold steady without modifications every five minutes. They flirted around the edges but didn't have the force of will or strong leadership necessary to be credible. That's why I worry about the next one. He's out there right now, I am sure. And it won't be a clown show next time.
This is a great example of you debating with voices in your head. I do not hold the position that "it couldn't happen here". In fact, I am concerned that it very well could, with the right leader. The Trump presidency was a major wake-up call for me, regarding how palatable neo-fascism is for a lot more Americans than I would have thought. But DJ Trumpy-Trump is not that leader, and this was not that set of circumstances.
No, no, a thousand times no. I am not scrutinizing the pieces and saying that they do not make a whole. I simply disagree on the nature and motivation of the actions, individually and collectively.
I think they skirted around the edges of a coup and kicked the tires a little, but none have the conviction, will, or even the flat-out balls to actually *do* anything to actually make it happen. This is a meek and tentative crew; they all cower back and kind of hope someone else will take the ball. Its a team with an ineffectual quarterback. They can't score a point because the QB won't do anything to make it happen.
Returning to the meta point: you, too, are simply refusing to hear what you don't want to hear. We have a difference of opinion regarding motivations of others. You are as confident in your assessment as I am in mine. Mine, however, need no constant reconstruction after the fact to backpedal from coup to attempted coup to incompetent coup attempt. Mine hold steady without modifications every five minutes. They flirted around the edges but didn't have the force of will or strong leadership necessary to be credible. That's why I worry about the next one. He's out there right now, I am sure. And it won't be a clown show next time.
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
I think one of more poignant lessons of the Trump administration has been "it isn't illegal if there are no consequences," which feels fairly similar to Nixon's "Well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal."
dirtywick
Penultimate Amazing
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Im sure you can understand why we’d be hesitant to ignore the words spoken and actions taken because you claim to have a special insight into their motivations that we don’t
Thermal
August Member
And I'm sure you can understand that we see the same actions, and each interpret motivations as they make the most sense to us in full context. It's pretty rich to make snide comments about only me reading in too much.
Again, my interpretation stays consistent from beginning to end. Yours has to keep modifying because things don't quite fit the narrative.
"The coup is upon us."
"No wait, it was an attempted couo."
"Holup, it was an incompetent attempted coup"
"Um...you have to read between the lines here to see what he really meant, and the cache of weapons they left in the truck was ...well I'm sure they were going to get them any minute, and um...you see you have to look at the big picture to see it clearly, and...um... Hurr durr, Thermal says is wasn't a coup because it didn't work."
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