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Trump's Coup d'état.

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acbytesla said:
Now my question is, will they object to Arizona, go into separate sessions, then Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin extending this out to ten hours or what?

If they continue this over and over again will there be motions to call the previous question and will they successfully cut off hours and hours of debate.

My guess is the Trumpsters will be doing a lot of rehearsed lying, so the Democrats need to plan for contingencies having well written speeches to demonstrate their positions and expose the GOP for encouraging this sort of thing.
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They also need to follow the Chicago Way. "You send one of ours to a vote? We send two of yours to the floor!". Then keep upping the number.

From what was posted earlier, they announce the votes in alphabetical order by state:

Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Hawaii
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maine
Maryland
Massachusetts
Michigan
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Hampshire
New Jersey
New Mexico
New York
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Oregon
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Vermont
Virginia
Washington
West Virginia
Wisconsin
Wyoming


The bold states are the "controversial" ones the Republicans are going to whine about. Okay, let them pull the trigger on this, wait for them to get to Arizona at #3. If they force a vote, then Arkansas and Florida each get a vote.

That puts us 6 hours into a normally fairly short process, and shows the GOP that the Dems are willing and able to play stupid games twice as long as they are. But the very next vote is Georgia - after 6 hours of this, will the GOP be willing to go for another 6 hours, by challenging Georgia?

Except it won't be 6 hours. The Dems up the ante, and object to all of Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, and Kansas. That's a total of 10 hours. That's more than a full workday all by itself, and means they've now been at this for a minimum of 16 hours already. If they start at 9AM, it's now 1AM. As the question of Kentucky comes up, everyone breathes a sigh of relief as the DEMs let it go.

Until Nevada comes up, of course. Have the GOPer broken yet? Yes, then we move on. No? Then we play silly buggers again. And we up the stakes, to keep them on their feet. New Hampshire and New York are challenged just to make them think "WTF?" (**** it, it's their turn to be confused!). Then of course it's North Carolina, North Dakota, and Ohio in "quick" succession. All of that adds up to anther 12 hours of nonsense.

We skip Oklahoma and Oregon, give them a sense that there may be a way out of this. But when Pennsylvania comes up for a vote, every Democrat there stands up in unison, and starts chanting, "13 more times! 13 more times!" Let them know, you're willing to spend more than a full day more if they keep being jerks.
 
The Trump coup, run by Elite Professionals, is being sabotaged by Big Tech.

Gohmert had to request an extension for the deadline set by the judge to file his response, because "Plaintiffs have employed a team of lawyers to prepare their responsive brief. During the course of preparation, Plaintiffs’ counsel have encountered numerous technical incompatibilities in the software versions between Google Docs and Microsoft Word resulting in editing difficulties and text problems."

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/25729521/26/gohmert-v-pence/


In the meantime, the response was filed, and it's insane. It basically claims the VP can pick the next president.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/25729521/30/gohmert-v-pence/

Critical analysis of the response if you like this stuff (I sadly do): https://twitter.com/questauthority/status/1345039740387651585
 
Horatius said:
...
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It's an interesting thought experiment, but I can't imagine that the Dems would ever do it. They'll trust the process and soldier through the Republican stunts. That's all they have to do to win formalize their win.
 
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When the final vote is called on the 6th or 7th, I hope the DC Metro Police and the Capitol Police have plenty of less than lethal munitions to fire into the Trump supporters. I suspect they are going to need them.
 
Horatius said:
They also need to follow the Chicago Way. "You send one of ours to a vote? We send two of yours to the floor!". Then keep upping the number.

From what was posted earlier, they announce the votes in alphabetical order by state:

Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Hawaii
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maine
Maryland
Massachusetts
Michigan
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Hampshire
New Jersey
New Mexico
New York
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Oregon
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Vermont
Virginia
Washington
West Virginia
Wisconsin
Wyoming


The bold states are the "controversial" ones the Republicans are going to whine about. Okay, let them pull the trigger on this, wait for them to get to Arizona at #3. If they force a vote, then Arkansas and Florida each get a vote.

That puts us 6 hours into a normally fairly short process, and shows the GOP that the Dems are willing and able to play stupid games twice as long as they are. But the very next vote is Georgia - after 6 hours of this, will the GOP be willing to go for another 6 hours, by challenging Georgia?

Except it won't be 6 hours. The Dems up the ante, and object to all of Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, and Kansas. That's a total of 10 hours. That's more than a full workday all by itself, and means they've now been at this for a minimum of 16 hours already. If they start at 9AM, it's now 1AM. As the question of Kentucky comes up, everyone breathes a sigh of relief as the DEMs let it go.

Until Nevada comes up, of course. Have the GOPer broken yet? Yes, then we move on. No? Then we play silly buggers again. And we up the stakes, to keep them on their feet. New Hampshire and New York are challenged just to make them think "WTF?" (**** it, it's their turn to be confused!). Then of course it's North Carolina, North Dakota, and Ohio in "quick" succession. All of that adds up to anther 12 hours of nonsense.

We skip Oklahoma and Oregon, give them a sense that there may be a way out of this. But when Pennsylvania comes up for a vote, every Democrat there stands up in unison, and starts chanting, "13 more times! 13 more times!" Let them know, you're willing to spend more than a full day more if they keep being jerks.
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Maybe a good warning shot would be the Dems objecting the Alabama's slate of electors. It might give the Republicans pause.
 
Dave Rogers said:
I'm beginning to understand why only one of the main parties is called 'Democrats'.

Dave
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I finally get what Republicans mean with their sempiternal "the US are a Republic, not a Democracy."

I'm still amazed that they actually wrote this in their response:
On January 6th, a joint session of Congress will convene to formally elect the President.
The defendant, Vice-President Pence, will preside. Under the Constitution, he has the authority to conduct that proceeding as he sees fit. He may count elector votes certified by a state’s executive, or he can prefer a competing slate of duly qualified electors. He may ignore all electors from a certain state. That is the power bestowed upon him by the Constitution.
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Insane doesn't do justice to this.
 
Firestone said:
I'm still amazed that they actually wrote this in their response:
On January 6th, a joint session of Congress will convene to formally elect the President.
The defendant, Vice-President Pence, will preside. Under the Constitution, he has the authority to conduct that proceeding as he sees fit. He may count elector votes certified by a state’s executive, or he can prefer a competing slate of duly qualified electors. He may ignore all electors from a certain state. That is the power bestowed upon him by the Constitution.
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Insane doesn't do justice to this.
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Except for the first sentence, it's entirely correct. He can open the session and spend the whole session trying to pitch us his new movie script in which the Earth gets invaded by an army of transdimensional telepathic butterflies armed with quantum meat tenderizers, who will start in Saint Louis because they'll be using the Arch as the gateway from their home universe, if that's what he feels like saying.

And it would have exactly the same amount of influence on or relevance to the outcome, because of the "except for the first sentence" part. They're doing nothing that has any actual part in the process of determining who the next President is or making the next President President. That's already been done. They're just clicking "Like" or "Dislike" on it.
 
In the congressional amicus brief, they pointed out that even if the Trump electors were allowed to vote in the EC, Arizona law requires that they would have to vote for Biden because he got the most votes.

The republican pretense that the electors were not selected by the legislators is mind boggling stupid. Legislatures create the rules for determining electors. The state followed the rules. The end.

Ironically, this is another case where they aren't claiming election fraud. Now the argument is that the VP can just count votes any way he wants.

Which begs the question, even if it were true that the VP could do what they want, why should the VP do anything but follow the results of the election? Just on a whim? That's how we elect a president? The whim of the vp?
 
Craig4 said:
Maybe a good warning shot would be the Dems objecting the Alabama's slate of electors. It might give the Republicans pause.
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No, you have to let them take the first shot, otherwise you just hand them the "They did it first!" excuse, which you know they'll take.


Firestone said:
I finally get what Republicans mean with their sempiternal "the US are a Republic, not a Democracy."

I'm still amazed that they actually wrote this in their response:

Insane doesn't do justice to this.
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It's this bit that made my jaw drop:

In their submissions, Defendant and amici never reach this issue. Instead, they hide behind procedural arguments such as standing, laches and other “gatekeeping” defenses that, as set forth below, are easily disposed above. They argue that the January 6th joint session is no more than a perfunctory coronation. A ceremony where the Vice-President is relegated to the mundane task of opening envelopes filled with electoral votes certified by state governors. They say that the Vice President, the glorified envelope-opener in chief, has no authority to preside over anything else or to decide anything of substance or to even count the votes in those weighty envelopes. He is only the envelope-opener.
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It sound to me like they didn't write this for the court, they wrote it for their CT-obsessed voters. This sounds like exactly the sort of dismissive tone and childish name-calling we used to get from Truthers.

In a document they seem to think will overturn an election in a historical first.

:boggled:
 
I'm now picturing an elaborate awards ceremony.

Pence: "The envelope please."
*Assistant walks the next state's envelope to him*
Pence: "And the winner of the electoral votes for _________ is _________!"
 
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well they are the ones trying to turn a ceremonial proceeding into a one vote election.
 
rdaneel said:
I'm now picturing an elaborate awards ceremony.

Pence: "The envelope please."
*Assistant walks the next state's envelope to him*
Pence: "And the winner of the electoral votes for _________ is _________!
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Nah... More like:

And the winner of the electoral votes for _________ is ....drum roll.. camera quick cuts to the senator from the state and general audience.... is.... you’ll have to come back after these words from our sponsors!
 
Horatius said:
It sound to me like they didn't write this for the court, they wrote it for their CT-obsessed voters. This sounds like exactly the sort of dismissive tone and childish name-calling we used to get from Truthers.

In a document they seem to think will overturn an election in a historical first.

:boggled:
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Indeed.

There are quite a few parallels between this election fraud CT and the good old 9/11 Truther nonsense.

Not really surprising, but here, instead of powerless Truthers, we have a president and members of Congress pushing the CT.
 
rdaneel said:
I'm now picturing an elaborate awards ceremony.

Pence: "The envelope please."
*Assistant walks the next state's envelope to him*
Pence: "And the winner of the electoral votes for _________ is _________!"
Click to expand...

Pence's duties in this are no different then those of an Oscar presenter:Open the Envelop and announce the winner.
 
I think the Democrats objecting to Alabama would serve notice. Have Democrats ready to speak about voter suppression, purging voters and other anti-democratic GOP tactics.
 
acbytesla said:
I think the Democrats objecting to Alabama would serve notice. Have Democrats ready to speak about voter suppression, purging voters and other anti-democratic GOP tactics.
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If anything, I think this makes the problems worse, and might even be an enabler.


I don't like voter suppression tactics. No one admits that they do. However, the kind of voter suppression tactics that go on these days are a fundamentally different thing than what is going on this year with the objections to the vote allocation. It's one thing to make it difficult to vote, by setting up roadblocks. That's the sort of voter suppression that goes on these days. Laws are created that the people making those laws know will result if fewer votes. That's despicable, but it's at least still within the rule of law.

What is happening this year is that the radicals in the GOP want to just disregard actual votes counted, and in the course of so doing disregard the law itself. That's not merely despicable. It's dangerous to our democracy.

I think previous years' complaints about various reasons why past elections might not have been legitimate have helped contribute to an atmosphere where people are less likely to take notice when someone moves those complaints up a notch or five, as Trump and friends are doing now. At the very least, they are loudly crying that their efforts now are no different than previous Democratic objections and claims that previous elections were not legitimate. I don't think they really believe it, and I'm certain that all but the truly stupid ones can see the difference, but they know that some of their followers will be taken in by the BS they are slinging.
 
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