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Trump's Coup d'état.

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Minoosh said:
Someone tried to make hay with Dominion machines being connected to the Internet, but it turned out to be after voting had ceased and results were being transmitted to wherever they were collected.
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The root of it is Hugo Chavez's election success which the far-right could never accept as legitimate, despite his popularity. They naturally turned to conspiracy theorising and wove this story. The voting machines were new because the people the US far-right favoured had never encouraged (and rarely permitted) voting. They were also the American Way, and Chavez was keen on that. Do it the American Way and Americans will accept it. Instead they hung their conspiracy on it, just as Trump hung his on increased mail-voting; this old stuff was re-purposed later.
 
Segnosaur said:
The risk for Moscow Mitch is that even if the republicans win in Georgia, their margin in the house will be verrrry slim. He has little room to maneuver.

Granted Hawley won't necessarily be friendly to the democrats, but he could (occasionally) throw a wrench into the works on some less crucial issues.
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I think the first thing on Moscow Mitch's mind is his command of the Party. He would very much like to keep the Senate majority and claim it as his victory (by doing nothing) but if he loses it he can blame it on Trump, and a two-year period when the Party has no power (and thus no blame) is not that horrible a prospect.
 
Minoosh said:
I'm not a big fan of voting machines. I kept hearing references to "algorithms" that could "flip votes." And I was wondering, why the hell would you program that capability into any machine? It was probably just right-wing disinformation but I didn't do any deep research.
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It is so they can be used in places that use RCV/instant runoff.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
For the next four years, Mitch is going to get it from sides, Trump and Biden.
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If Mitch doesn't command the Senate he's in calm waters, and in two years there are midterms. In the meantime he consolidates his hold on the Party. I'd advise him to lose the Georgia run-offs, blame Trump for his disempowerment, and come roaring back in the midterms. Back-channel co-ordination with the Kochs would be authorised. :cool:
 
CapelDodger said:
If Mitch doesn't command the Senate he's in calm waters, and in two years there are midterms. In the meantime he consolidates his hold on the Party. I'd advise him to lose the Georgia run-offs, blame Trump for his disempowerment, and come roaring back in the midterms. Back-channel co-ordination with the Kochs would be authorised. :cool:
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The only problem for Mitch in that plan...

In 2022, the election map does not look good for the republicans. (They have to defend a lot more seats in the senate than the republicans.) Plus you will have a few retirements (which removes the incumbent advantage.) So, if the democrats win the 2 Georgia run-offs and control the senate as a result, they will likely continue to hold it for 4 years. (And if they fail this year, they'll probably win it in 2022). So if Moscow Mitch wants power, he has a very short window of opportunity.

Plus, if the Democrats take the senate now, there is a chance Biden might actually play hardball... grant statehood to Puerto Rico/Washington DC, pack the supreme court, bring in laws to prevent voter suppression, etc.. Not only would all that undo a lot of the work republicans have been doing to corrupt the system, it will make it harder for them to win in the future.

On the other hand, the democrats have a very slim house majority, and the party that holds the white house tends to lose congressional house seats in the midterms. My prediction is that post-2022 you will see control flip... from a republican senate/democratic house, to a democratic senate/republican house.
 
A lot of rumors about what Trump supporters might try todo on Jan 6th in DC.
At his point who knows how much is a real threat and how much of it is just the macho hot air Trumpers like to spout but never back up.
But Jan 6th In DC will be a circus, no doubt of that.
 
dudalb said:
A lot of rumors about what Trump supporters might try todo on Jan 6th in DC.
At his point who knows how much is a real threat and how much of it is just the macho hot air Trumpers like to spout but never back up.
But Jan 6th In DC will be a circus, no doubt of that.
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I'm not worried about the idiots on the streets. I'm sure there will be a few. But it is not going to matter. The ELECTORAL VOTES will be counted and Biden will be awarded 306 EC Votes, Trump will be awarded 232. The only question in my mind is whether Pence will say out loud after the votes are completed that Joe Biden is the next President. I'm also curious how long this ceremony will last. On average, it takes 32 minutes. This is likely to proceed for 3 hours to as long as 12 hours.
 
d4m10n said:
Such as?

(Embarrassed to admit it among skeptics, but I'd really like to hear the rumors.)
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This is from yesterday's Washington post (Posting this because WAPO is behind a pay wall;I subscribe but many don't).

Protests planned in support of President Trump on Jan. 6 are multiplying by the week.

Four seemingly competing rallies to demand that Congress overturn the results of the presidential election, which their participants falsely view as illegitimate, are scheduled on the day Congress is set to convene to certify electoral college votes, declaring President-elect Joe Biden the winner.

The events will be headlined by Trump’s most ardent supporters, including recently pardoned George Papadopoulos, a foreign policy adviser to Trump’s 2016 campaign who pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI during its Russia investigation, and longtime ally Roger Stone, whose sentence for seeking to impede a congressional probe into Russian election interference was commuted by Trump in July before being upgraded to a full pardon.

Formal rallies are planned most of the day and will draw pro-Trump demonstrators to the Washington Monument, Freedom Plaza and the Capitol. But online forums and encrypted chat messages among far-right groups indicate a number of demonstrators might be planning more than chanting and waving signs.

Threats of violence, ploys to smuggle guns into the District and calls to set up an “armed encampment” on the Mall have proliferated in online chats about the Jan. 6 day of protest. The Proud Boys, members of armed right-wing groups, conspiracy theorists and white supremacists have pledged to attend.
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It's the last paragraph that causes concern. It could just be the usual hot air from phony macho Trumpers, but you can never tell.
 
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With threats of violence on Jan 6, plus the need to enforce COVID restrictions more strongly, it is quite possible that the local authorities in Washington DC may close the whole central city district to non-essential people and traffic. This will be enforced by real cops with real guns and real tear-gas (if Barr can do it, then so can the city officials). The intending protesters will be routed to parks or baseball stadiums or some such well out of the city (perhaps out in the country?), where they can have their rallies and do all their seig heiling and goose-stepping to their hearts' content. The electoral process can then proceed unhindered. And Trump can sit and fume all alone in the White House, or go visit his "friends" in the boondocks,
 
acbytesla said:
The only question in my mind is whether Pence will say out loud after the votes are completed that Joe Biden is the next President.
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Probably not. That isn't usually done. The Vice President announces the number of electors, majority needed, total votes for each candidate, and then says that announcement shall be deemed a sufficient declaration of the persons elected. That's it.

In 2001 Gore added something like "We wish the new President the best." In 1961 Nixon gave a little speech about how presiding over the count of his own defeat demonstrated the stability of democracy in America and congratulated Kennedy and Johnson.

I think everybody else has stuck to the script, which does not explicitly say who the next President and Vice President are.
 
Here's an exotic scenario to fret over: what if both Biden and Harris were assassinated before the chamber completes its business on the 6th?

Far fetched, but the oddity about it is that if the work of the 6th is complete, presidential succession is clearly in effect even for the President-elect, so basically what happens is a Pelosi presidency with her VP appointment.

From what I could dig up, it's a little less certain whether that can kick in before Congress is done on the 6th. The article I read presumed that a court would rule accordingly, but why they were so confident was not made clear.
 
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DevilsAdvocate said:
Probably not. That isn't usually done. The Vice President announces the number of electors, majority needed, total votes for each candidate, and then says that announcement shall be deemed a sufficient declaration of the persons elected. That's it.

In 2001 Gore added something like "We wish the new President the best." In 1961 Nixon gave a little speech about how presiding over the count of his own defeat demonstrated the stability of democracy in America and congratulated Kennedy and Johnson.

I think everybody else has stuck to the script, which does not explicitly say who the next President and Vice President are.
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Thank you. I was under the impression he usually does announce the winner. I know there is nothing in the Constitution that says he declares the winner. It is such a formality, I have never even thought about it.

This is all just ceremony. And here's the thing about the vote. The basis for the objections to the electors is not really legitimate. This objection process was created to resolve the possibility of fraudulent EC votes. This was before modern communications where they streamed the EC State by State.
 
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Norman Alexander said:
With threats of violence on Jan 6, plus the need to enforce COVID restrictions more strongly, it is quite possible that the local authorities in Washington DC may close the whole central city district to non-essential people and traffic. This will be enforced by real cops with real guns and real tear-gas (if Barr can do it, then so can the city officials). The intending protesters will be routed to parks or baseball stadiums or some such well out of the city (perhaps out in the country?), where they can have their rallies and do all their seig heiling and goose-stepping to their hearts' content. The electoral process can then proceed unhindered. And Trump can sit and fume all alone in the White House, or go visit his "friends" in the boondocks,
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Except Trump has returned to DC specifically to be there on the 6th. Who knows what he'll try to pull. Send in troops to assist the Proud Boys? Declare martial law? Who knows? Even he doesn't!
 
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