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Trump's Coup d'état.

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Suddenly said:
The problem with this is that the shenanigans have become the definition of being a Republican. There is no "two sides" that can repudiate Trumpism
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So Trump's coup of the GOP is complete? Perhaps. Or perhaps now that he is a loser they might realize that continuing down that path is not the best idea? The way things are going, soon the definition of 'Trumpist' will be too extreme for the majority of conservatives to accept. While he was winning they could hold their noses, but now he's just an embarrassment. So the GOP has to decide which way to go - stay all-in on Trumpism and lose popular support, or pretend they were never with him and put it behind them. Hopefully some will go one way and some the other, splitting the GOP in two and ensuring that Democrats win forevermore!

Unless they want to give up their careers they are forced to continue down this path of consolidating minority rule. That this will also likely lead to their powerlessness as power is concentrated in less and less hands creates a sort of prisoner's dilemma
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But what if it's being Trumpist that gives them minority rule? In this election Trump picked up more minority votes, but lost even more suburban white votes to Biden. This trend will continue while Republicans keep their wagon hitched to Trumpism.
 
for some, they're walking a fine line on being primaried or just plain losing to a dem if they don't embrace Trumpism at least in the short term. Trump will take some R voters further down the rabbit hole, and some R officials need that vote. others are safely entrenched, and others are true believers.
 
Lurch said:
To me, and I suspect many others, the immediate concern here is not whether Drumpf gets his way this time. Rather, it's the eroding of norms that could well make it more possible for the next scumbag to succeed.
History shows us numerous cases where it was discovered too late what horror derives from not seeing and suppressing the looming danger in time. Drumpf is frighteningly dangerous because of what he's accelerating. To blithely and smugly sit back and foolishly perceive the battle as won now is to be a right fool. It CAN happen in the US and A. It nearly did, but for the annoying inconvenience of an almost pitiful few states putting the kibosh on Drumpf's plans.
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This was true when Trump got elected. It's been true his entire term.

His refusal to concede was 100% predictable.

IMO, I don't think the final 2-3 months made the eroded norms any worse than the whole 4 years.

The eroded norms Trump is responsible for were there before the election.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
This was true when Trump got elected. It's been true his entire term.

His refusal to concede was 100% predictable.

IMO, I don't think the final 2-3 months made the eroded norms any worse than the whole 4 years.

The eroded norms Trump is responsible for were there before the election.
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That's true. But to me this was more or less a grand reveal of exactly how damaging the norms he has eroded have been until it happened. We knew he'd try but we didn't know how far he'd go and how silent the right would be about it. But we found out. The last three weeks haven't been complete destruction of democracy, a violent rebellion, mass arrest of opponents, or anything of the sort and it appears the transition will ultimately happen on time and be peaceful. But it also hasn't been "well, turns out everything is great!" There's concerning problems here regardless of the outcome.
 
dirtywick said:
That's true. But to me this was more or less a grand reveal of exactly how damaging the norms he has eroded have been until it happened. We knew he'd try but we didn't know how far he'd go and how silent the right would be about it. But we found out. The last three weeks haven't been complete destruction of democracy, a violent rebellion, mass arrest of opponents, or anything of the sort and it appears the transition will ultimately happen on time and be peaceful. But it also hasn't been "well, turns out everything is great!" There's concerning problems here regardless of the outcome.
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Yeah. What it looks like is an incompetent test run. What I would find deeply concerning is if those responsible can just walk out of this without consequences. For the next guy/gal who comes along, that would mean that they already have their "How not to do it" manual, and they can try that crap again for free.
 
That and this can also happen at lower levels of government. Why won't lib triggering Trump supporters running for other levels of government not say there is a voter fraud conspiracy against them too? I'd be surprised if Kelly Loeffler won't fall back on that if she loses, for instance or if Trump isn't pushing that from the sidelines.
 
cosmicaug said:
Nonsense, whip up some fake threat & those who are susceptible will fall in line. Trump isn't some magical, 1 in a million snowflake being uniquely capable of fascist demagogy. Maybe the forms of it have not been particularly well followed in the past. Now they have. Now we have a guide to follow and someone can.
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He is not unique though I think a lot of the traits that make him compelling are somewhat self limiting in combination with competence.
 
Yeah guys, Trump is only pointing finger guns. None of his followers would actually back him if he continued to deny election results.


“If President Trump comes out and says: ‘Guys, I have irrefutable proof of fraud, the courts won’t listen, and I’m now calling on Americans to take up arms,’ we would go,
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“Trump is the only one we’ve been able to trust for the last four years,” said Strickland, an oilfield production engineer. “As far as the civil war goes, I don’t think it’s off the table.”
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Apologies I can't copy the link, got the article through Facebook on my phone and it won't let me copy it. The article is from Reuters. The quotes are from Sundown Texas, the second one if from the Mayor. The sentiment is repeated in a number of Republicans strongholds.
 
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Cavemonster said:
Yeah guys, Trump is only pointing fingers guns. None of his followers would actually back him if he continued to deny election results.






Apologies I can't copy the link, got the article through Facebook on my phone and it won't let me copy it. The article is from Reuters. The quotes are from Sundown Texas, the second one if from the Mayor. The sentiment is repeated in a number of Republicans strongholds.
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Link: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-election-trump-fraud-insight-idUKKBN2801DX
 
Brainster said:
Would Hitler give up easily or would he try a coup?

Is Trump Hitler?

Ergo, Trump is trying a coup. Flawless logic.
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Winter approaches. Straw supplies run low. Please, save it for spring. Think of the horses. Alternately, post it in Australia or Uraguay.
 
Emily's Cat said:
He's attempting to wrest power in almost the exact way that a toddler attempts to arrest power when it decides to hold its breath until it gets its way. The people panicking about a coup are essentially 1) petrified with worry that the kid will actually get its way by holding its breath and 2) yelling at the parents because they looked at the kid and said "okay, you go ahead and hold your breath for as long as you can, I know, it's so unfair!" and 3) berating everyone in the kid's family including distant cousins for not beating the kid black and blue in response to it holding its breath.
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Toddlers aren't particularly influential. For reasons that escape me, Trump is quite influential.

Somewhere north of 70% of Trump voters believe the election was stolen. Rather than focus on dull semantics like the definition of "coup", let's talk about that. Is that an important problem for a democracy? Does it make baseless doubt about future elections more likely? Is such doubt a real issue?
 
Dismissing the actions of a president who is actively damaging the country by comparing him to a toddler is just another way of saying “I’m not affected by this, so I don’t care”.
 
Darat said:
Link: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-election-trump-fraud-insight-idUKKBN2801DX
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Sometimes there just aren't enough laughing dogs.

So this is what you guys take as a viable threat, now? The empty-handed hot air from a doughy chiropractor and some randoms at the Log Cabin bar? Quaking in my boots, baby.

I especially like the weaseling qualifiers: IF Trump orders them to take up arms, they for sure tootin will. Funny how cocky you can be when you know nothing will happen. I guess we'll have to add Captain Suburban Butterball commanding Meal Team Six to the swoon list of power players. Its just amazing, the empty **** you guys get scared of.

And before someone says it, we will always have a Tim McVeigh running around. If he staged his attack today, he'd be wearing a MAGA hat and Qanon shirt. They will always be out there, and always act out, Trump or no Trump. But these Colonel Comfy Couch windbags....I mean, can we be serious for like five minutes?
 
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phiwum said:
Toddlers aren't particularly influential. For reasons that escape me, Trump is quite influential.

Somewhere north of 70% of Trump voters believe the election was stolen. Rather than focus on dull semantics like the definition of "coup", let's talk about that. Is that an important problem for a democracy? Does it make baseless doubt about future elections more likely? Is such doubt a real issue?
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I doubt it. Most of my fellow Americans are 99% full of **** and don't believe half of what they say. Posing and posturing and parroting.
 
Thermal said:
I doubt it. Most of my fellow Americans are 99% full of **** and don't believe half of what they say. Posing and posturing and parroting.
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And as long as the actions of the 3 million or so who aren’t full of **** don’t directly impact me, why should I care?
 
phiwum said:
Toddlers aren't particularly influential. For reasons that escape me, Trump is quite influential.

Somewhere north of 70% of Trump voters believe the election was stolen. Rather than focus on dull semantics like the definition of "coup", let's talk about that. Is that an important problem for a democracy? Does it make baseless doubt about future elections more likely? Is such doubt a real issue?
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Not to mention the fact that a delay in the transition process risks national security and public safety

There are several points made in that article, but perhaps the most convincing evidence is that the report from the 9/11 Commission found that the delay in Bush's transition contributed to the terrorist attacks on the US in 2001. That's several thousand US citizens who might still be alive if not for those delays.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that such an attack will happen again, but it's an illustration of why delays aren't without consequence - and it should be borne in mind that there is an ongoing serious health crisis that is going to needs as smooth a transition as possible.

The attitude of "oh, what harm can it cause?" is fatuous when the answer is "it could cost thousands of lives".
 
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