• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Trump's Coup d'état.

Status
Not open for further replies.
lobosrul5 said:
I question how easy it would be for the president to put in uber-loyal supporters into the SS? I'm not entirely sure. I do think that maybe, even in Trumps atrophied brain, he'll realize pulling such a stunt might actually result in negative consequences to him.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that the Secret Service is independent, and intentionally kept free from any political influence.
 
eerok said:
My understanding is that the Secret Service is independent, and intentionally kept free from any political influence.
Click to expand...

Oh, so it's like the Justice Department. That's good to know.

(I know, the Justice Department isn't literally independent, but neither is the Secret Service which is part of DHS and hence may or may not be headed by action figure Chad Wolf. Say what you will, just saying the name "Chad Wolf" makes me sound safe and secure. He'll take care of things, just you watch.)
 
phiwum said:
Oh, so it's like the Justice Department. That's good to know.

(I know, the Justice Department isn't literally independent, but neither is the Secret Service which is part of DHS and hence may or may not be headed by action figure Chad Wolf. Say what you will, just saying the name "Chad Wolf" makes me sound safe and secure. He'll take care of things, just you watch.)
Click to expand...

Oh, geez, don't use me as a reliable source. That's just my impression.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
I can envision Trump calling for all loyal supporters to converge on Washington on January 20th to protest Biden’s swearing in. If done right I suspect he could get huge numbers out for something like that.
Click to expand...
I really doubt that. Unless they were being paid.
 
If it is beyond the realm of possibility that Trump ensures between now and Jan 20th the top decision makers within the USSS are loyalists who agree with Trump that he is the rightful President, show me why it's impossible and I'll sleep better tonight.

If your explanation includes anything like "It would look bad so he wouldn't do it" or relies on peop adhering to norms or decency, then I won't find it too reassuring. Those things have not served as very effective barriers over the last four years.
 
Cavemonster said:
If it is beyond the realm of possibility that Trump ensures between now and Jan 20th the top decision makers within the USSS are loyalists who agree with Trump that he is the rightful President, show me why it's impossible and I'll sleep better tonight.

If your explanation includes anything like "It would look bad so he wouldn't do it" or relies on peop adhering to norms or decency, then I won't find it too reassuring. Those things have not served as very effective barriers over the last four years.
Click to expand...

But how would that work, exactly? Some armed goons form around Trump in the White House, and he refuses to leave? To what end? Why wouldn't the duly elected POTUS simply order an end to it? One's mere physical presence in the White House isn't what makes one a president. It's not a question of it being impossible, but more that it's stupid and ineffective.
 
Last edited:
Vixen said:
No, he's still at it.
Click to expand...

Yep, Trump is still trying to overturn a legitimate election. Ginger’s still saying “nothing to see here!”

It’s almost like she’s doing Trump’s dirty work for them as that’s the cover that many Republicans are giving themselves.

This is all perfectly normal. We are just concerned about voter irregularities.... don’t worry, it will all be resolved in court etc...

What Ginger is missing is that this is the actual con job - normalizing a refusal to concede and stringing the supporters along. Now officials are getting death threats and getting doxxed!

This is a ******** situation that Trump is encouraging. At least see this for what it is!
 
Giuliani and his 'crack team' of lawyers went on C-Span (guess no news stations would schedule them) this morning for more than an hour (there's a transcript) to spew election fraud nonsense. I listened to a couple minutes, skipped ahead, skipped ahead some more and skimmed the transcript. I wanted to hear the questions and answers but after a couple of them it was clear these were friends of the cause. I don't believe there were any news organizations there but I could have missed them in the skimming.

This was all the evidence the courts already threw out. You can really make it look like you have a case if you put enough stuff up. Have you ever seen the Loose Change video about 9-11 being an inside job? That's one slick hour of convincing propaganda.

Anyway, at least the mainstream news isn't buying it: NBC: Rudy Giuliani baselessly alleges 'centralized' voter fraud at free-wheeling news conference -- On Thursday, the president's legal team flooded the zone with false claims.
President Donald Trump’s attorney, Rudy Giuliani, took the president’s voter fraud claims even further on Thursday, baselessly alleging during a frenzied news conference that the fraud was nationally coordinated.

The president's legal team alleged already debunked claims of voter fraud, baseless allegations of corrupted and hackable voting machines, election interference by foreign communists, and even references to antifa. The former New York City mayor also offered alternative election results for swing states and argued the president had a viable path to a second term.
Click to expand...
Let's not leave out the Commies and Antifa.

But Fox made sure to spread the lies around: Giuliani presses Trump election challenge case in fiery news conference with legal team -- The ex-New York City mayor aggressively made the case for the Trump campaign's legal challenges
President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani aggressively made the case on Thursday for the Trump campaign's legal challenge of the 2020 election results, alleging in a fiery news conference that there was a "centralized" plan to carry out voter fraud around the country.

This is a different approach than the campaign has recently taken in court, where they have primarily focused on the validity of ballots and counts without asserting fraud. While Giuliani did not present any direct evidence of a massive fraud scheme, Giuliani asserted that this is the "logical conclusion" reached as a result of incidents he said took place in several states.
Click to expand...
So the court case was 'different' and there's no direct evidence but it's only logical there is a nationwide cabal who ousted Trump.



Sadly, that's a conspiracy theory that will live on for ages.


Here's the link if anyone is feeling particularly masochistic: https://www.c-span.org/video/?478246-1/trump-campaign-alleges-voter-fraud-states-plans-lawsuits
 
eerok said:
My speculation is that the GOP don't want Trump back. They want Trump's base, and it's in their interest to devise a way to take it over with someone more sane and predictable at the helm.

I don't think Trump has made any friends among the GOP lately. It must be very uncomfortable being left holding the wet diaper of Trump's failure. Any allies one makes through instilling fear are not really allies, and that pretty much describes the GOP at this time.

It's all just speculation, of course.
Click to expand...

It makes sense. He's an *******. Some of those idiots like Pence are happy to admire him daily. But he has a lot of the GOP cowed, afraid to so much as criticize him under their breaths. He's burnt bridge after bridge.
 
The Atheist said:
Secondly, security will be tighter than a mouse's anus - even the dumbest redneck Nazi clown will realise he has zero chance of getting within miles of anywhere with his guns, and since they're all cowards propped up by guns, they won't go.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how tight mouse anuses are, but there is a scenario in which security might not be as tight as you imagine. Trump could federalize the DC National Guard and then as CIC of the armed forces issue an order that all military members vacate DC. If the heads of the Homeland Security Department and Interior Department cooperate, they can order the Secret Service and National Park Police to stay away. That would leave only the DC police and possibly the Capitol Police for security.
 
TellyKNeasuss said:
I'm not sure how tight mouse anuses are, but there is a scenario in which security might not be as tight as you imagine. Trump could federalize the DC National Guard and then as CIC of the armed forces issue an order that all military members vacate DC. If the heads of the Homeland Security Department and Interior Department cooperate, they can order the Secret Service and National Park Police to stay away. That would leave only the DC police and possibly the Capitol Police for security.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you're pitching a Movie of the Week.
 
angrysoba said:
Yep, Trump is still trying to overturn a legitimate election. Ginger’s still saying “nothing to see here!”
It’s almost like she’s doing Trump’s dirty work for them as that’s the cover that many Republicans are giving themselves.

This is all perfectly normal. We are just concerned about voter irregularities.... don’t worry, it will all be resolved in court etc...

What Ginger is missing is that this is the actual con job - normalizing a refusal to concede and stringing the supporters along. Now officials are getting death threats and getting doxxed!

This is a ******** situation that Trump is encouraging. At least see this for what it is!
Click to expand...
What's the point of having this discussion if you change the actual things I've said to a straw person you'd rather have the argument with?


BTW, the msn is coming around nicely. The news reports I've seen so far all call Rudy's charade a fail except one.

Only Fox seemed to take is seriously. The Guardian reported on the Biden COVID conference only mentioning Rudy in passing.
Trump rails against election defeat as US Covid deaths top 250,000 – live

They are still updating it.
 
eerok said:
But how would that work, exactly? Some armed goons form around Trump in the White House, and he refuses to leave? To what end? Why wouldn't the duly elected POTUS simply order an end to it? One's mere physical presence in the White House isn't what makes one a president. It's not a question of it being impossible, but more that it's stupid and ineffective.
Click to expand...

What armed goons? The secret service would surround the person they considered the president as per their orders from whoever heads the secret service.

They take their orders from a boss, their job isn't to interpret the vote count. The chain of command are all Trump loyalists. The long term civil servants have either been purged or work under someone loyal. Who is bringing Biden the information a president needs or carrying out his orders?

The transition relies on a whole bunch of individuals recognizing it. If the people in the correct positions don't recognize a transition, then how does it happen?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
It makes sense. He's an *******. Some of those idiots like Pence are happy to admire him daily. But he has a lot of the GOP cowed, afraid to so much as criticize him under their breaths. He's burnt bridge after bridge.
Click to expand...

To know Trump is to loathe him. It's no accident that his home state so aggressively seeks indictments against him. I don't see much loyalty among the GOP once his power to harm them diminishes.

The best scenario would be if Trump goes to jail, but that's another topic.
 
Cavemonster said:
What armed goons? The secret service would surround the person they considered the president as per their orders from whoever heads the secret service.
Click to expand...

The Secret Service are the armed goons to which I was referring, in your scenario that they might declare allegiance to Trump. What would this allegiance look like, though? Would they form a ring around Trump? Shuffle around? Practice their crouching firing postures? That was my point. They can't make him president.

Cavemonster said:
They take their orders from a boss, their job isn't to interpret the vote count. The chain of command are all Trump loyalists. The long term civil servants have either been purged or work under someone loyal. Who is bringing Biden the information a president needs or carrying out his orders?

The transition relies on a whole bunch of individuals recognizing it. If the people in the correct positions don't recognize a transition, then how does it happen?
Click to expand...

You're talking about a complete and systemic breakdown of American government. I don't see how you think that's going to happen. There's nothing going on right now that would suggest that this is plausible.

You might as well speculate that Trump will have Biden arrested and jailed for election fraud. I mean, get to the meat if you want to go there.
 
eerok said:
The Secret Service are the armed goons to which I was referring, in your scenario that they might declare allegiance to Trump. What would this allegiance look like, though? Would they form a ring around Trump? Shuffle around? Practice their crouching firing postures? That was my point. They can't make him president.



You're talking about a complete and systemic breakdown of American government. I don't see how you think that's going to happen. There's nothing going on right now that would suggest that this is plausible.

You might as well speculate that Trump will have Biden arrested and jailed for election fraud. I mean, get to the meat if you want to go there.
Click to expand...

The outcome of a complete subversion of democracy is pretty extreme.

The question is, what are the specific concrete actions needed to acheive this and are they specifically implausible?

It seems to me, only three things are needed.

1) Trump decides he won't accept the election results no matter what.

2) He replaces or fires anyone who would be involved in the transfer of power to Biden.

3) Enough people within the executive branch go along with it.

#1 seems pretty much a given. Number 2 is underway. He's been purging the branch of non loyalists for four years. He's given himself more power to do that with an EO and has ramped up the firing and replacing. He has installed people who the courts have declared not legally in the position who continue to wield power.

Again, the OUTCOME is extraordinary, but why are the steps that would lead to it unlikely?
 
Cavemonster said:
The outcome of a complete subversion of democracy is pretty extreme.

The question is, what are the specific concrete actions needed to acheive this and are they specifically implausible?

It seems to me, only three things are needed.

1) Trump decides he won't accept the election results no matter what.

2) He replaces or fires anyone who would be involved in the transfer of power to Biden.

3) Enough people within the executive branch go along with it.

#1 seems pretty much a given. Number 2 is underway. He's been purging the branch of non loyalists for four years. He's given himself more power to do that with an EO and has ramped up the firing and replacing. He has installed people who the courts have declared not legally in the position who continue to wield power.

Again, the OUTCOME is extraordinary, but why are the steps that would lead to it unlikely?
Click to expand...

#1 -- That goes without saying. Trump will never admit he lost the election.

#2 & #3-- I don't understand these. After the EC, the election is verified by Congress, isn't it? I don't think there's anyone Trump could hire or fire that would cause him to "win" the election. Before the EC, SCOTUS could possibly do something, but why would they?

Just curious, though. Even though many in the GOP are willing to remain silent while Trump embarrasses them, do you think enough of them would be willing to destroy American democracy to keep a douche like Trump in power? I don't think even Mitch would do that. SCOTUS would have nothing to gain from it, and everything to lose.

ETA: In sum, I doubt Trump has the power to manage a coup without support he almost certainly doesn't have. It'd pretty much take SCOTUS throwing away all the votes and declaring Trump emperor.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom