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Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

smartcooky said:
Nope, YOU are wrong.

You may be marginally right about justification/argument for one side - the side that wants to keep men out of women's spaces, but it won't make any difference to the side that wants to give transgender identified males free reign to invade women's only spaces. You could have a sign that says "Biological Females Only" with a Ghostbusters syle sign showing "No Penises" and they will go in anyway. If you try to tell them no, or point out the sign, they will tell you to ◊◊◊◊-off just the same.

Changing signs from "women" to "biological females" would be a hugely expensive non-solution!
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Free REIN. The opposite of "hold your horses".
 
Thermal said:
Lying again. I have said I ask women how they actually feel about it in jurisdictions where it actually happens. They, surprisingly, say it's not a big deal and they have no objections, barring an actually menacing person, male or female. Further, I've said that if women do object, they should be allowed to do so with no legal penalties, because that's how self policing works.

But keep repeating the lies. It's a good look, and the repetition will surely convince the feeble minded that they must be true.
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First, as I may have remarked before, I'm tired of being called a liar when I state my honest opinion. Stop doing that.

Second, I am in a jurisdiction where that actually happens. I don't count?

Third, you graciously concede that I should be allowed to object without penalty. That and a fiver might get me a cup of coffee. It won't keep the man out of the women's toilet in the first place, and it won't remove him once he's there. It's a meaningless concession.

The place where I am comfortable peeing is a facility where the rules in force prohibit men from entering, and the social contract supports that state of affairs. Where a man who enters, and who refuses to leave when asked, can be ejected by the management.

I had that all my life until about five minutes ago (that's hyperbole), when it was taken from me with no consultation. It worked fine. Police were not involved.

You're very keen that men should have the place to pee in that makes them comfortable. You have no such care that I should have such a place. Hence my opinion of your position.
 
Thermal said:
Yeah, that's what I keep hearing. I just keep not seeing it.
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Oh, you've seen it alright, buy you just handwave it away (repeatedly) using your standard handwaving picking list...
You're just cherry picking in order to vilify all people with transgender identities!
Those aren't real trans
They didn't identify as trans when they did that
It's legal for them to do that
That female made it up
That female engineered an encounter just so they could blow it out of proportion for clicks.
 
Ziggurat said:
If you decide that the guy is being creepy and decide to use force and he resists, do you think the police even can stay out of it?
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Further, how do you deal with it when you live in a gender ideology captured state where the laws side with the creepy transgender identified male, and YOU are breaking the law when you ask him to leave?
 
Thermal said:
Because that term [trans-identified male] is universally a derogatory one.
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Nonsense, it's an objective one. Actually, I prefer "trans-identifying", because it correctly specifies who is doing the identifying, rather than leaving the suggestion open that everyone will naturally accept the identity.
Thermal said:
The only people on this particular planet who deny that are shall we say, 'not friends' of transpeople.
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From my POV, that's moot, since there are no "transpeople," only people who are confused about their sex, and others who are also confused about those people. And in my experience, those of us who use language carefully and objectively on this subject are actually better friends of those you call "transpeople" than those who collude with their subjective fantasies. (You, for example, endlessly put derogatory words in our mouths about them, increasing their fear that we are not friends of theirs, or indeed are engaged in a trans genocide.)
Thermal said:
Try asking a transperson how they like that oh-so-objective label.
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Try asking people on pro-anorexia forums how they like the label "needing psychological therapy", or "dangerously malnourished". Consider whether their dislike means you're anorexia-phobic and not their friend.
 
Ziggurat said:
We can split males into two groups: those who self-exclude from female intimate spaces, and those who do not.

A policy of excluding males from female intimate spaces does nothing to the first group. It has no effect on them whatsoever. It only actually affects the second group. And you know what? As a member of the first group, I have absolutely no problem treating that second group as if they're a threat. Do you understand why?
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Nitpicking, but it affects the first group as well. It affects all of us decent males, if only because it reflects badly on us, but it also puts our loved ones in danger and abuses their human rights, and it further erodes the plummeting standards of critical thinking and objectivity in society, damages human flourishing generally, puts children in danger of being "identified" as needing sterilisation by the insane gender cult...
 
Emily's Cat said:
But if a fungus got into your brain and took control... could you physically dominate a randomly selected female and impose your will? If the aliens brainwashed you, what is the likelihood that a female would be capable of preventing you from raping or murdering them?
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Or, say, a mind virus like incels suffer from. (And that Venn circle overlaps with lesbian-identifying males, some of whom then demand that 'other' lesbians must have sex with them or they're sick transphobes.)
 
Thermal said:
Try asking a transperson how they like that oh-so-objective label. Please, do so. Report back when the hospital releases you.
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The casual implication that a male would be justified in physically beating a female to the point of hospitalization over a perceived insult is really quite something.

You should spend some time contemplating your relationship with violence. It isn't healthy.
 
Ziggurat said:
The casual implication that a male would be justified in physically beating a female to the point of hospitalization over a perceived insult is really quite something.

You should spend some time contemplating your relationship with violence. It isn't healthy.
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He's saying trans identifying males have a casual relationship to violence, and are likely to put a woman in the hospital if she looks at them funny.

Which, you know, is a lot more transphobic than anything Emily's Cat has said about risk management.
 
What about The Atheist, when he remarked that one of his fa'faine friends would knock anyone's teeth out if they referred to him as a man. And he seemed to think this was quite reasonable.
 
theprestige said:
The vagueness is manufactured by trans privilege activists, who have a vested interest in trying to make a simple thing seem as complicated as possible.

And we've been over this before. Clarifying the label doesn't change their behavior or demands. It just prompts them to give their language another Orwellian turn of the screw.
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I think it does. If that Orwellian turn of the screw forces them to argue that they have changed their sex rather than the wishywashyness of gender then they haven't got a leg to stand on.
EDIT: ah ◊◊◊◊ I forgot to get photos of our 'scraping the floor' toilets etc, I'll do it tuesday.
 
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Emily's Cat said:
To be fair, the gender critical view *is* questioning progressive ideology.
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Yeah, I misspoke.

Meant to say that most of the ridicule here in this thread is performed to silence those who promote rather than question gender ideology, but in fairness I've seen the tactic used both ways.
 
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Emily's Cat said:
Sure, because the piles of males with transgender identities who insist that they have female minds and therefore are female will suddenly change their tune and abide by a different word.

I very, very strongly suspect that they'd simply start insisting that "female" means a feeling inside their head and doesn't have any actual objective meaning. They've already put a whole lot of effort into trying to dismantle sex, including asserting that sex is a spectrum, that it's possible to have a brain sex that's different from one's genitalia, and that people with transgender identities are intersex by definition of having an internal feeling of femaleness.
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Female is clearly and demonstrably defined and anyone would fail to argue otherwise. Gender is this cultural nonsense about feelings and fitting in to the stupid gender roles that they get indoctrinated with from the moment they are born.
I think they're arguing that gender is a spectrum not sex? If not they're demonstrably wrong.
If they are trying to dismantle and/or redefine sex just laugh, as it hits a wall the moment it comes into contact with anyone remotely qualified in the topic.
These problems arise because sometimes gender and sex are used interchangeably when it would solve the problem to not do that. Label the toilets/private spaces according to who you want to keep out if you want, but at least do it logically.
 
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p0lka said:
I think they're arguing that gender is a spectrum not sex?
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This is from a post made by someone on this board just yesterday:

arthwollipot said:
The right loves simplicity. The right loves the binary. Black and white, good and evil (*cough* male and female *cough*), us and them. The real world is messy, and complicated, and extremely nonbinary, and the far right hates that. And they hate those of us who embrace it.
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