Transwomen are not Women - Part 14

[Shadowdweller]

Individuals who identify as transgender but do not seek diagnosis and treatment are of some interest to this thread but of little interest to medical journals. Individuals who seek diagnosis and treatment for gender dysphoria but do not identify as transgender are of interest to medical journals but not really on topic here in this thread.

They're relevant to individuals or meta-studies claiming that mass numbers of people become no longer transgendered. Seeing as subjects can change between those categories. Or move to and from places where physicians and mental health workers diagnose (/bill) the conditions differently. Or simply stop particular billable interventions without ceasing to identify as or be transgendered.

If the pharmacological interventions must be consistently kept up in order to prevent the patient from physically detransitioning towards their birth sex, then the psychiatric ICD-10 diagnosis F64 must be kept up as well so as to keep the money moving from the insurers to the doctors and pharmacies supplying the needs of the patients. This is where your appendicitis analogy fails quite spectacularly, since appendectomy is typically a one-off billing event.

Hormone therapy needs to be kept up. Not all the other types of therapy do. And again, the dysphoria itself may be eliminated or temporarily absent from a particular time period. This is particularly relevant given that the study this particular chain of discussion revolves around included some children who were significantly younger than would typically receive hormone therapy.

 

[d4m10n]

They're relevant to individuals or meta-studies claiming that mass numbers of people become no longer transgendered.

The claim that they are no longer diagnostically dysphoric shows up in the study, but I cannot see anywhere the authors said that the patients are "no longer transgendered" at least not in the study itself.

This is particularly relevant given that the study this particular chain of discussion revolves around included some children who were significantly younger than would typically receive hormone therapy.

Had those patients persisted (rather than desisted) they would have been eligible for the endocrine pathway.

 

[Shadowdweller]

The claim that they are no longer diagnostically dysphoric shows up in the study, but I cannot see anywhere the authors said that the patients are "no longer transgendered" at least not in the study itself.

As stated upthread, I've no idea what the study claimed. However, the blog theprestige quoted made the claim that:

A groundbreaking new study on insurance data suggests that the majority of German youth do not persist in their transgender identity after five years.

 

[Ziggurat]

The claim that they are no longer diagnostically dysphoric shows up in the study, but I cannot see anywhere the authors said that the patients are "no longer transgendered" at least not in the study itself.

I've heard the claim that you can be transgender without dysphoria, but I've never heard an explanation of what that really means or, more importantly for this thread, why that deserves any accommodations or treatment. Because normally, relieving the distress of dysphoria is the given reason for both.

 

[Emily's Cat]

nm

 

[d4m10n]

As stated upthread, I've no idea what the study claimed.

I'll let you all know when the official English language version drops here in a bit.

 

[theprestige]

As stated upthread, I've no idea what the study claimed. However, the blog theprestige quoted made the claim that:

Clearly you have some idea of what the study said. You can always read the abstract if think it's been misrepresented here.

 

[Shadowdweller]

Clearly you have some idea of what the study said. You can always read the abstract if think it's been misrepresented here.

Not nearly well enough to be able to differentiate technical terms and methodologies.

 

[Elaedith]

Benjamin Ryan discusses newly unsealed documents revealing some of the internal communications of WPATH members expressing concern about the evidence, and political influence on guidelines development.

 

[d4m10n]

GOP culture war comes for the NBs

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out...ule-eliminating-x-option-sex-state-rcna158787

 

[Emily's Cat]

Benjamin Ryan discusses newly unsealed documents revealing some of the internal communications of WPATH members expressing concern about the evidence, and political influence on guidelines development.

I really want to make this more broadly read. It's infuriating that WPATH is aware of all the problems we've been pointing out for years... and it just gets swept under the rug and ignored.

 

[Graham2001]

There's a posting on Barrie Weiss's Substack site that covers some other documents from the 'North Carolina Case' which allegedly point to heavy political influence on the WPATH results.

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) has outsize influence on the medical care offered to children distressed about their gender. It shouldn’t. It’s not a medical or scientific organization, it’s an advocacy group. And in 2022, when it released its long-awaited revision of its treatment guidelines, including those for minors, the recommendations came as a shock. At the last minute, the group eliminated virtually all minimum age restrictions for receiving these life-altering medical and surgical interventions—interventions that, for example, could render patients sterile. How and why did such a thing happen?

https://www.thefp.com/p/biden-official-lobbied-wpath-age-restrictions

 

[smartcooky]

GOP culture war comes for the NBs

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out...ule-eliminating-x-option-sex-state-rcna158787

The rule change made Arkansas the latest among Republican states taking steps to legally define sex as binary, which critics say is essentially erasing transgender and nonbinary people’s existences and creating uncertainty for intersex people — those born with physical traits that don’t fit typical definitions of male or female.​

What an utter load of ideological claptrap!

My driver's licence has my first and last names, my DOB and donor status and photograph of me. This is the only personal information on it. It does NOT state my sex at all. Does that mean it is "erasing my human existence"?

 

[Sherkeu]

GOP culture war comes for the NBs

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out...ule-eliminating-x-option-sex-state-rcna158787

GOP culture? An odd framing for scientific realities.

Sex is, in fact, binary. So, either list facts on an ID or hide that info in the barcode or something. Just leave it out if it is so triggering.

I've always been a proponent to live and let live, any identity. You do you!!

That right ends wherein any other party - including the government- is required to lie, or produce false documents, to support the identity. Or where another person's official records are changed to support a lie and their own true records are hidden (ie births and marriage documents).

Q: What is the car insurance rate for "X"? Less than male or more than both? I'd guess it is a higher rate than any binary answer.

 

[Emily's Cat]

The rule change made Arkansas the latest among Republican states taking steps to legally define sex as binary, which critics say is essentially erasing transgender and nonbinary people’s existences and creating uncertainty for intersex people — those born with physical traits that don’t fit typical definitions of male or female.​

What an utter load of ideological claptrap!

My driver's licence has my first and last names, my DOB and donor status and photograph of me. This is the only personal information on it. It does NOT state my sex at all. Does that mean it is "erasing my human existence"?

The hyperbole is tiresome. Recording the actual sex of a person doesn't erase their existence.

 

[Emily's Cat]

GOP culture? An odd framing for scientific realities.

Sex is, in fact, binary. So, either list facts on an ID or hide that info in the barcode or something. Just leave it out if it is so triggering.

I've always been a proponent to live and let live, any identity. You do you!!

That right ends wherein any other party - including the government- is required to lie, or produce false documents, to support the identity. Or where another person's official records are changed to support a lie and their own true records are hidden (ie births and marriage documents).

Q: What is the car insurance rate for "X"? Less than male or more than both? I'd guess it is a higher rate than any binary answer.

At this point, I think the car insurance rate for "X: ought to be about 2.3 times the male rate.

 

[d4m10n]

GOP culture? An odd framing for scientific realities.

Culture war doesn't really care about science, just ask the anti-vax folks.

Sex is, in fact, binary. So, either list facts on an ID or hide that info in the barcode or something. Just leave it out if it is so triggering.

I think it's worth asking why sex is listed in the first place. Presumably, for roughly the same reasons eye color is on there.

 

[Hercules56]

Men cannot become women, women cannot become men, men cannot become pregnant.

The End.

 

[theprestige]

Men cannot become women, women cannot become men, men cannot become pregnant.

The End.

Bro you already speed-ran this thread once. You don't need to do it again.

 

[Ziggurat]

I think it's worth asking why sex is listed in the first place. Presumably, for roughly the same reasons eye color is on there.

Well, yeah. It's useful identifying information.

"Gender", to the extent that it's different than sex, is not useful identifying information. It would be like listing your favorite flavor of icecream.