If you're not sure, and you can't ask, maybe don't worry about it? We're talking about being polite to someone's face. If you can't ask, you're hardly talking directly to someone.
Right. But in the scenario I outlined first -the one you've responded to, I was talking to a 3rd person, correct?
In MOST situations, if someone is using a pronoun, they are talking in the third person:
That's Joe's purse. HE leaves it there every day.
That's Joe's purse. SHE leaves it there every day.
Either way, Joe is not around.
"Hey, Joe, I found YOUR purse" is not really under discussion as I understand it.
Were those men trans-gendered?
How would I know?
Did they behave inappropriately towards you? I mean, beside occupying the same room as you.
Let me ask you:
What interaction would have been safe, if these people were in fact standard issue men who decided to take the opportunity to follow a young woman into a washroom?
Please tell me, so that if I'm ever face-to-face with another potential rapist, I can be assured of my safety?
If so, perhaps the problem is those men, and not all trans-gendered people?
Besides basic survival needs, I'm pretty sure there is no situation anywhere that covers every person.
We are talking about trans-gendered people. Trans-women often look like women, and trans-men often look like men. Sometimes they have bits that fit, and sometimes not.
If a trans-woman should go to the locker room which best fits the way she looks, it would normally be the women's locker-room, penis or no penis. Same for trans-men.
Right. But that is within the context of the much larger group of people who are sharing their world.
I do think every person -of whatever gender- can take a moment to consider the ramifications involved before they use a washroom or locker room or shower intended to be used by any group of people.
I've used men's washrooms when the women's was broken. I was considerate and careful to make sure there were no men inside first. I don't know how most men would feel walking into a washroom to find a woman standing there, but I'm sure it wouldn't be the most comfortable scenario. If I had to hazard a guess, I think most would walk right back out and wait. But is it that easy mid-stream?
Oh, I'm sure you do. But why would you expect them to do so while refusing to do so yourself?
I've only refused to do so myself once. I've met three people who were
probably transgendered (I didn't ask). I had no problem with two of them, because they were clearly living a lifestyle that reflected their choices. But the one case -I'll call him Rex- insisted that once in a while he was a woman named Yvonne. I called him Rex and refused to call him anything else. Apparently he was one of the people the sub-discussion has been about: going on dates with heterosexual men, who were then quite surprised to discover the truth. No one beat him up or killed him, but I would not have been completely shocked if someone did. That would not excuse such behavior (and Rex was actually not a bad guy, I certainly never wanted anything to happen to him), but again, it's about being conscious of one's own safety, and considering the wider world. It wasn't all about HIM, as he seemed at times to think.
What about a female shaped person with male parts?
Is that person capable of raping the other female shaped persons? If so, I'm not so fond of the idea of her being in a washroom with other female-shaped-persons-with-female-parts (do you see how out of hand this gets, and how quickly?) but really only for reasons of the safety of all concerned. But...a female shaped person with male parts would probably be more at risk of assault in a room full of standard issue men, so again,
I say "Please consider the effects of your behavior on others".
I'm sorry; I have no idea.... I'll Google.
