Today's Mass Shooting

[Bogative]

You do understand that a shooter shooting up a bunch of people anywhere in the USA is by dint of the crime the very definition of a "domestic violence extremist"?

According to the FBI, violent extremism is

encouraging, condoning, justifying, or supporting the commission of a violent act to achieve political, ideological, religious, social, or economic goals.

They list some of the more common groups of DVEs on its website:

Abortion extremists, militia extremists, sovereign citizen extremists, anarchist extremists, animal rights and environmental extremists, and white supremacy extremists.

DHS Secretary Mayorkas says the greatest threat to America is DVEs. When I go through the list of the 116 mass shootings, I only see two that may be related to domestic violence extremism. Only 18 of the 130 people killed in mass shootings so far this year might possibly be linked to a DVE.

Considering that they makeup the majority of mass shootings, people who attend "pop up parties/block parties/house parties/bars and clubs" should be on the FBI's list.

 

[jimbob]

Stalling because you don't have evidence of weekly mass shootings in the US?

Perhaps you meant something else:This is your 4th post not providing any evidence whatsoever.

Well on average:

Population of United States: 334 million
Number of guns per 100 persons: 120.5
Mass shootings in 2020: 611 (446 dead, 2,515 wounded)


Population of European Union: 513 million
Number of guns per 100 persons: 15.6
Mass shootings in 2020: 4 (25 dead, 31 wounded)


Gee whizz... now I wonder what the difference could possibly be?

https://abcnews.go.com/US/graphics-story-mass-shootings-pandemic/story?id=76628491


"....part of the mass shooting equation is just the sheer number of firearms in the United States, where Americans own more guns per capita than any other nation in the world. The widespread availability of guns is what creates as a society the opportunity for these kind of acts to happen."... over 46% of all the civilian guns in the world are owned by the citizens of a country that contains just 4.25% of the world's population.

"We've seen an unprecedented increase in gun purchasing, beginning last year. Gun buying spiked in the spring, summer and fall of 2020, culminating in Americans purchased a record-breaking 3.9 million guns last December, according to FBI background check data. In total, the 39.7 million guns purchased last year mark the highest sales total in at least two decades." Then in January 2021, American gut buyers broke the monthly record again, purchasing 4.3 million.

https://s.abcnews.com/images/US/Cha...cks_v07_DAP_1616538886353_hpEmbed_1x1_992.jpg

 

[Steve]

In regards to the classification of these shootings, I think it’s important to be precise.

Measures intended to mitigate Skeptic Ginger’s definition (with which I agree) would be ineffective at mitigating domestic-violence incidents, or gang-violence incidents, or “road rage” incidents.

These shootings are motivated by psychotic homicidal ideation, or paranoid delusions, or by religious or political ideology.

Here in St. Louis, we have an ongoing problem with “gun violence”. Most all of this is drug/gang related, a constant spiral of rival gangs and subsequent revenge shootings. Often, funerals are targeted by revenge-seeking rival gang members.
We also have a spate of road-rage incidents. But no “mass shootings” by the above definition in recent memory.

It’s not so much that these are qualitatively different in terms of numbers of victims, but rather in causation.

One obvious action will reduce the incidents of "mass shootings" across the board regardless of classification. That is removal of access, or greatly restricted access, to guns. There is incontrovertible evidence of this in numerous other countries. Classification as you and SG propose amounts to "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic" in a country that does not have the collective political or moral will to actually reduce the problem. Gun deaths in the USA are merely collateral damage from the overriding gun ownership fetish. Suggesting classification of these shootings will have any noticeable effect on the incidence is patently ridiculous.

 

[Steve]

Well on average:

SG knew this. There is no way a poster of her experience across a significant number of subjects on this forum has not encountered similar statistics posted here. She was merely channeling our dear departed Claus Larsen for reasons unknown.

 

[Max_mang]

Surely it doesn't need to be this complicated. A mass shooting is a shooting in which a mass of people is shot. You can quibble about what number constitutes a mass, but I really can't see much more to debate about it.

Aversion to nuance does not help when trying to understand an important issue.

 

[Max_mang]

If you cannot solve a problem by actually dealing with it directly then the next best solution is to define it out of existence.

Good thing that's the opposite of what Skeptic Ginger is doing.

 

[Lurch]

One obvious action will reduce the incidents of "mass shootings" across the board regardless of classification. That is removal of access, or greatly restricted access, to guns. There is incontrovertible evidence of this in numerous other countries. Classification as you and SG propose amounts to "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic" in a country that does not have the collective political or moral will to actually reduce the problem. Gun deaths in the USA are merely collateral damage from the overriding gun ownership fetish. Suggesting classification of these shootings will have any noticeable effect on the incidence is patently ridiculous.

As long as Americans insist on having their cake, via a ridiculous and selective misinterpretation of the 2nd Amendment (yes, they're wrong), the problem of gun violence can not and will not be curbed sufficiently.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

But given those numbers, no matter how much you want to ignore mass shootings because they are not the 'right kind' of mass shootings, the US far outstrips the EU.
Just by a larger factor than I knew based upon news stories that reach here.

In my opinion that fact that you need to compartmentalize the type of mass violence with guns is horrifying enough.

This is just crap.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

If you cannot solve a problem by actually dealing with it directly then the next best solution is to define it out of existence.

Other than my post citing a couple of useful documents (FBI school shooter profile; 'going postal' seminar for the workplace) Tell me where in this thread I missed the "dealing with it" citations.

So far all I've seen are the standard Americans are bad, get rid of guns/assault rifles.

I'll wait.

 

[Steve]

Other than my post citing a couple of useful documents (FBI school shooter profile; 'going postal' seminar for the workplace) Tell me where in this thread I missed the "dealing with it" citations.

So far all I've seen are the standard Americans are bad, get rid of guns/assault rifles.

I'll wait.

The USA has not "dealt with it". Period. Documents, and categorization, have made no difference. Groups of people are still being shot on a very regular basis. This regularity has been cited at your specific request.

Getting rid of most guns would absolutely make a big difference. It is the only solution that will make a big difference. Categories will not. As long as guns are prevalent in your society they will be used quite regularly to "solve" problems. I have no illusions - this will not happen in my lifetime and may never happen. And I certainly don't consider Americans to be "bad". Just rather stupid and blind when it comes to guns.

Oh yeah - regarding "I'll wait" - what will you wait for? Me to solve your country's serious gun problems. If so you had better get used to waiting.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The USA has not "dealt with it". Period. Documents, and categorization, have made no difference. Groups of people are still being shot on a very regular basis. This regularity has been cited at your specific request.

Getting rid of most guns would absolutely make a big difference. It is the only solution that will make a big difference. Categories will not. As long as guns are prevalent in your society they will be used quite regularly to "solve" problems. I have no illusions - this will not happen in my lifetime and may never happen. And I certainly don't consider Americans to be "bad". Just rather stupid and blind when it comes to guns.

Oh yeah - regarding "I'll wait" - what will you wait for? Me to solve your country's serious gun problems. If so you had better get used to waiting.

OK, so the thread is about bitching about guns and Americans then. Got it.

 

[Thermal]

As long as Americans insist on having their cake, via a ridiculous and selective misinterpretation of the 2nd Amendment (yes, they're wrong), the problem of gun violence can not and will not be curbed sufficiently.

To be fair, over half of us support common-sense regulations. The smaller percentage that don't are very vocal and have effective lobbyists in their pockets.

But just to contradict myself for a moment, I was checking out the inventory of a local gun shop nearby, and the amount of obscure paramilitary looking weapons was just stunning. When I used to hunt a while back, inventories were almost exclusively hunting shotguns, rifles for out-of-state hunting, and a few plinkers (.22LR). Now the available selections look like something out of John Wick.

 

[Thermal]

OK, so the thread is about bitching about guns and Americans then. Got it.

While I get your point, the thread is about Mass Shootings, not any special subset. Why not start a thread called This Month's Random Spree Shooter and end the hair splitting?

This one is significant because it reflects all the multiple body bags being filled, including drive-bys and other people caught in the crossfire, which accounts for a staggering amount of casket sales. The spree killers, while terrifying, are not the ones reducing the U.S. population by thousands every year.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Lindsey Graham on Fox today


"I own an AR-15. If there's a natural disaster in South Carolina where the cops can't protect my neighborhood, my house will be the last one that the gang will come to, because I can defend myself."

He keeps it in the closet apparently.

 

[Kestrel]

Lindsey Graham on Fox today


"I own an AR-15. If there's a natural disaster in South Carolina where the cops can't protect my neighborhood, my house will be the last one that the gang will come to, because I can defend myself."

He keeps it in the closet apparently.

Linsey Graham needs that gun to keep dark skinned people out of his neighborhood. Just like the guys with guns that kept dark skinned people from crossing the bridge after Katrina.

 

[Thermal]

Lindsey Graham on Fox today


"I own an AR-15. If there's a natural disaster in South Carolina where the cops can't protect my neighborhood, my house will be the last one that the gang will come to, because I can defend myself."

He keeps it in the closet apparently.

Strange gangs in SC, I guess. Perhaps the good Senator is unaware that a roving apocalyptic gang might itself have a weapon or two, cap Lindsey-Lou and take his weapon? Does he fancy himself a Navy Seal or something?

One thing I can't stand about a lot of the AR-15 crowd: they trivialize killing, while never having done so. Paper targets and edgy bumper stickers are a long, long way from spontaneously killing human beings.

 

[Matthew Best]

News: mass shooting occurs in USA.

People here: that's not a mass shooting, that's just a bunch of people being shot.

????

 

[Steve]

OK, so the thread is about bitching about guns and Americans then. Got it.

The thread is about "Today's Mass Shooting". Seems that all the mass shootings that are noted here are in America, and carried out with guns So yes, it seems to be.

And there was a small side track regarding the definition and categorization of mass shootings, in America, with the suggestion that categorizing them would somehow lessen the frequency. Remember that? My position is that the categorization of mass shootings in the USA will do dick all to change the real frequency of occurrence. The only way categorization will change the frequency is to remove some types of mass shootings from the statistics.

Americans are more than welcome to their own policies and attitudes on guns within their own borders. Just accept that shootings with multiple deaths and/or injuries, regardless of classification, are a primary result of those policies and attitudes and stop moaning about it. Or take some real action.

 

[Steve]

News: mass shooting occurs in USA.

People here: that's not a mass shooting, that's just a bunch of people being shot.

????

Jeez, why didn't I just say that?!

 

[Max_mang]

And there was a small side track regarding the definition and categorization of mass shootings, in America, with the suggestion that categorizing them would somehow lessen the frequency. Remember that?

No one has made this claim.

Categorization happens in all areas where people are trying to fix a problem, do you oppose it across the board or only on this topic? Categorizing different kinds of cancers has not lessened or eradicated them. But that categorization leads to a better understanding that could lead to something that helps the problem.