Today's Mass Shooting

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Parsman said:
Not often I agree with mgidm86 but he is right this time. Although it happens proportionately more to black people the problem with police in the USA isn't solely a racial one, it is a cops vs society one and if a cop feels even mildly distressed by a civilians actions whatever their colour you have the chance of a fatal outcome.

As to this shooter, does it matter if he was Nazi, Communist or Monster Raving Loony Party in his motivations? He clearly was someone who shouldn't be getting easy access to firearms yet here we are again.
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Sadly for some it does seem to matter, everything has to be ascribed as either "for" or "against" their "side" so they can use the event as a weapon to win the fight.
 
Another mass shooting in the US, means another 10 pages on these threads, means another nothing changes
 
cullennz said:
Another mass shooting in the US, means another 10 pages on these threads, means another nothing changes
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And the Onion wheels out the most insightful analysis - yet again.
 
Parsman said:
As to this shooter, does it matter if he was Nazi, Communist or Monster Raving Loony Party in his motivations? He clearly was someone who shouldn't be getting easy access to firearms yet here we are again.
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Right now the media is full of authorities saying that he did not exhibit any signs of coming disaster. The red flags were not flying. They are comparing him to Cruz who did show signs including talk of being a school shooter.

The FBI and local authorities blew it with Cruz, but that can't be said with this kid. The point is that it's not clear until after the event but you can't put that to represent a clarity before the event.
 
Ranb said:
They are built on a modified AK47 action and come in various barrel lengths.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saiga-12
The Russian company that exports them to the USA was prohibited from doing so for political reasons after annexation of the Crimea.

Personally I have a low opinion of the Saiga 12. I've yet to see one that made it through a single 20-30 round magazine without a malfunction. I watched several people compete with them at a matches; they're never a winner although this is more to do with the shooter than the gun.


As far as I know the Saiga's imported to the USA have 18-23 inch barrels. I've seen a few that were legally chopped down to <18".
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Out appears to have been sufficiently reliable in this case.
 
More mass shootings = more desensitisation = more mass shootings = more copy cat = more mass shootings = more resistance by the pro gun lobby = more mass shootings.

There is nothing going on to suggest there were will be a fall in mass shootings and if anything, the situation now is likely to result in even more mass shootings.
 
Nessie said:
= more copy cat =
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If they copy this kid they will make sure not to give any indications that they are going to hurt anyone, have no criminal record or behavior problems, and make the school honor roll. Get your weapons by taking them from someone. Go retro with your guns like a 1960s mass shooter using a pump-action shotgun and a revolver. The world will be expecting semi-automatic with big capacity magazines - but no, not now. And see if you can do more than just ten.
 
Nessie said:
Today's mass shooting is a copycat of numerous other mass shootings.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/yes-mass-killings-inspire-copycats-study-finds-n386141

"Police have said so for years and now scientists have measured the effect: Mass shootings and school attacks do inspire copycats.

As many as 20 to 30 percent of attacks are set off by other attacks, according to researchers at Arizona State University and Northeastern Illinois University."
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That seems ridiculously obvious but I guess we have the expert opinion now. Some of the shooters own words and actions made that obvious to me. What did the Parkland shooter say once - he wanted to be a professional school shooter? HellOOOOOO.....

Problem: this kid one-upped the last shooter by making bombs - pressure cookers and Molotovs I believe? One pressure cooker could kill as many students as he and his guns did. Now what?

What inspired that idea? The Boston Bombers, one of which was coincidentally featured on the cover of Rolling Stone Magazine like a gawdamn rock star.

The last kid used an AR, this kid decided to go with a shotgun and pistol under a trench coat. He planned it in advance and brought weapons he could conceal.

Today his picture is on the front page of every stupid media site in the country - I guarantee this inspires another one.

These kids are starting to use bombs now. Guns may be a problem but it definitely is not THE problem with these kids, not by a long shot.

ETA:
Again, I'd like to know how many of these kids are on prescription meds. Are these the same kids that used to hang themselves in their bedrooms but are now shooting up schools instead? These "nobodys" are somebody for a few days while they grace the covers of magazines, why not go out like that?
 
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mgidm86 said:
That seems ridiculously obvious but I guess we have the expert opinion now. Some of the shooters own words and actions made that obvious to me. What did the Parkland shooter say once - he wanted to be a professional school shooter? HellOOOOOO.....

Problem: this kid one-upped the last shooter by making bombs - pressure cookers and Molotovs I believe? One pressure cooker could kill as many students as he and his guns did. Now what?

What inspired that idea? The Boston Bombers, one of which was coincidentally featured on the cover of Rolling Stone Magazine like a gawdamn rock star.

The last kid used an AR, this kid decided to go with a shotgun and pistol under a trench coat. He planned it in advance and brought weapons he could conceal.

Today his picture is on the front page of every stupid media site in the country - I guarantee this inspires another one.

These kids are starting to use bombs now. Guns may be a problem but it definitely is not THE problem with these kids, not by a long shot.

ETA:
Again, I'd like to know how many of these kids are on prescription meds. Are these the same kids that used to hang themselves in their bedrooms but are now shooting up schools instead? These "nobodys" are somebody for a few days while they grace the covers of magazines, why not go out like that?
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Of course there's a monkey-see, monkey-do effect, but easy access to guns is fertile ground to nurture violent fantasies.

Also, and this has been mentioned before, it's not easy to build a bomb. How many people were killed by these bombs? None. How many students in Columbine were murdered by bombs? None. The Parkland kid killed twice as many people as the Unabomber (and seven times as many as the Boston Bombers). Of course, does the right to keep and bear arms mean that companies should be allowed to manufacture explosive devices in order to -- you know -- keep the government in check. Explosives were far more important to the Iraqi insurgency than small-arms fire. Yeah, whatever.
 
Darat said:
Has this anything to do with the terrible tragedy of students being killed by a fellow student?
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I made a comment that some shotguns look similar to assault weapons. If the shooter used one of those shotguns it might explain eyewitnesses saying he had an AR-15.

The Sandy Hook conspiracy theory grew out of that mistake. A Saiga 12 was found in the trunk of the shooter’s car that some misidentified as a Bushmaster assault rifle. This was presented as proof that officials were lying. The shooter could not have used a Bushmaster because it was still in the trunk. Leading the gullible down a conspiracy theory rabbit hole.
 
mgidm86 said:
These kids are starting to use bombs now. Guns may be a problem but it definitely is not THE problem with these kids, not by a long shot.
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If kids want to use bombs instead of guns, then that's a good thing. Bombs are much harder to get right.

Guns make it easy, bombs make it hard.
 
Kestrel said:
I made a comment that some shotguns look similar to assault weapons. If the shooter used one of those shotguns it might explain eyewitnesses saying he had an AR-15.

The Sandy Hook conspiracy theory grew out of that mistake. A Saiga 12 was found in the trunk of the shooter’s car that some misidentified as a Bushmaster assault rifle. This was presented as proof that officials were lying. The shooter could not have used a Bushmaster because it was still in the trunk. Leading the gullible down a conspiracy theory rabbit hole.
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Functionally an assault gun is one that is optimised for shooting at a bunch people at relatively close range. A rapid fire shotgun is apparently just as good at that as a relatively short barrel semi auto rifle.
 
Darat said:
Has this anything to do with the terrible tragedy of students being killed by a fellow student?
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Nothing. But it has everything to do with the post I was replying to. Keep grinding that axe and you'll have to find something else to bitch about.

Captain_Swoop said:
Yes, everything to do with it.
Gun worship.
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You should stop worshiping the gun.

BBC has more details.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44186989
The gun battle went on for about 15 minutes before Mr Pagourtzis gave himself up, abandoning a plan to take his own life, the New York Times reported.

Police now say that eight students and two teachers were killed, with 13 people wounded in the attack, including one of the school's policemen who is in critical condition.
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The affidavit also said Mr Pagourtzis was wearing a trench coat and had a Remington 870 shotgun and a .38 calibre pistol.
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Finland has also had mass school shootings and threats of shootings,

https://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-244X-12-91

"Two school shootings with altogether 18 victims took place in Finland in November 2007 and September 2008. Homicides and suicides are both associated with the copycat phenomenon. The aim of the present study was to characterize adolescent copycats who had threatened to carry out a school massacre"
 
Meadmaker said:
Apparently a Neo-Nazi sort, plenty of racist images on his instagram, and he posted to the account during the killing spree.
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Yea but as he focused on killing the girl he as stalking and she refused to go out with him I expect she will get all the blame. If she had just screwed his creepy racist ass this wouldn't have happened.
 
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