Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (2)

[plague311]

I'm not seeing much evidence that the press was engaging in any outrageous conduct. Considering how much effort the local PD is expending to avoid public scrutiny outside this specific context, it's pretty reasonable to suspect this has more to do with the cops doing damage control than any concern for the families of the dead (who would probably like to get some public explanations themselves).

If the press were concerned about getting answers from the cops then they should speak with the cops. I never said anything the press did was outrageous, but I highly doubt any of the family want ******* reporters standing across the street, possibly filming or making notes, during their grief. If it's not douchey to you, then cool. We disagree, but I'll vehemently stand by my statement that it's really, really ****** to stand across the street of the burial of a 10 year old in hopes of getting....******* what, exactly? What ******* story could you possibly get from a burial that means you have to rubberneck a burial?

 

[Checkmite]

On Thursday five members of a Houston family - two adults and three children - were killed in a rural home in Centerville, a small town in central Texas. The victims were a 66-year-old man, his three grandchildren (one an adult), and a young cousin. The home was a rural property used by the family for weekend visits and vacations.

Their killer was a convict who had escaped from a prison transport bus on May 12 and had until yesterday been the subject of an intensive manhunt. The convict had been serving consecutive life sentences, for murder and for later shooting at a deputy in a previous escape attempt.

It appears to be the case that the killer entered the home either before or shortly after the family had arrived on Thursday afternoon, killed them all likely using guns he found in the home, and fled the scene in a truck also stolen from the home. The victims were found after relatives in Houston called police in Centerville concerned that they hadn't been able to reach them by phone. Police immediately suspected the escaped convict and noted the missing truck and the missing firearms, issuing warnings to the public.

Hours after the victims were found, the killer was spotted in the family's stolen truck outside San Antonio, where we was chased by and eventually had a shootout with police using the same weapons he'd stolen from the house - an AR-15 and a pistol. He was killed in the shootout.

 

[Nessie]

That is such a sad and horrible event. It raises the question, how many people have been killed with their own gun vs how many people have successfully defended their lives with their own gun?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

That is such a sad and horrible event. It raises the question, how many people have been killed with their own gun vs how many people have successfully defended their lives with their own gun?

We've had that answer for decades. You are more likely to die from a gun in your house than you are to use it for protection.

That includes suicides, murders and accidents.

VOX: Living in a house with a gun increases your odds of death

NEJM: Gun Ownership as a Risk Factor for Homicide in the Home

After controlling for these characteristics, we found that keeping a gun in the home was strongly and independently associated with an increased risk of homicide (adjusted odds ratio, 2.7; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.6 to 4.4). Virtually all of this risk involved homicide by a family member or intimate acquaintance.

There are CDC studies also but funding of these studies was restricted until very recently:

CDC There are many types of firearm injuries, which can be fatal or nonfatal:

The following comes from pushback by gun promoters who claimed the number of times a gun protected a person aren't recorded unless the gun is used.

Estimates of defensive gun use vary depending on the questions asked, populations studied, timeframe, and other factors related to study design. Given the wide variability in estimates, additional research is necessary to understand defensive gun use prevalence, frequency, circumstances, and outcomes.

Regardless, it's still clear a gun in the home increases danger to the people in the house especially if you look at the rates of suicide, homicide and accidents.

 

[shemp]

In battered Uvalde, where a police chief is in hiding, grief gives way to calls for accountability

UVALDE — Everyone in town is waiting to hear from Pete Arredondo.

As chief of the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District Police Department, it was his call to wait more than an hour for backup instead of ordering officers on scene to immediately charge the shooter who killed 19 students and two teachers at Robb Elementary School. The chief of the state police later said this was the “wrong decision, period.”

Now, Arredondo is a man in hiding, as calls for answers and accountability grow louder each day.

In the week since state police singled him out for blame, Arredondo has hardly been seen.

Police officers stand guard outside his home. He has declined to explain his actions, telling a television crew that staked out his office he would not do so until after the victims’ funerals. City officials, too, have assisted in the vanishing act. They canceled a previously scheduled public ceremony Tuesday and instead swore in Arredondo in secret for his latest role on the City Council.

City Hall has locked its doors during business hours and declined to immediately provide any public records to reporters. The chief of the city police force, Daniel Rodriguez, has declined to answer questions about his officers’ response to the shooting. A Uvalde CISD official told a reporter, falsely, that the first school board meeting since the incident would be closed to the public.

At the special meeting Friday, an agenda item allowed the board to terminate Arredondo. The board declined to do so.

Board members did not respond to requests for comment before the meeting.

 

[Bogative]

I can't imagine caring what color a school\mass shooter is but if you want to do a comparison check on school shootings by shade of skin I think you'd learn something new. Honkies shoot up schools at a disproportionate percentage.

As promised, I'm back with receipts. Hold onto your socks, they're about to get knocked off.

Since the Uvalde shooting nearly 2 weeks ago, I've noticed a lot of MSM using an organization called "Education Week" as a source of school shootings in the US, they keep a running count of all shootings at US schools. If their information is good enough for WaPo, NPR, NBC News, The Hill, etc. it's good enough for me. They list every school shooting and do not use some hocus-pocus formulation to skew the numbers to fit a particular narrative.

Of the 27 shootings at US schools this year, 16 of them have publicly available identifying information of the known shooters. Here's a breakdown:

14 black males
8 Latino males.
1 Asian male.
11 shootings have no suspect description, currently. A lot of these are because courts and law enforcement do not release information about juveniles.

0 known white shooters. We have been lied to. I guess the question now is, will you continue to spread the lie?

Here's the list of shooting incidents if anyone wants to accuse me, again, of leaving out certain types of shooters.

January 4 – Rockford, IL – Auburn high school
2 wounded. Nyreek Williams and Fraquon Wright. Both black males
https://www.mystateline.com/news/lo...s-update-in-auburn-high-school-investigation/

January 19 – Sanford, FL – Seminole high school
1 wounded. Da'raveius Smith. Black male.
https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/t...h-student-claims-he-was-taunted-report-states

January 19 – Pittsburgh, PA – Oliver Citywide Academy
1 killed. Suspects described as masked and younger looking.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/oliver-high-school-on-lockdown-following-shooting/ar-AASWyFr

January 21 – Rockville, MD – Magruder high school
1 wounded. Steven Alston Junior. Black male.
https://wjla.com/news/crisis-in-the...t-gun-montgomery-county-public-schools-police

January 29 – Beloit, WI – Beloit Memorial high school
1 killed. Amaree Goodall. Black male.
https://www.seehafernews.com/2022/0...ect-makes-first-rock-county-court-appearance/

February 1 – Richfield MN – South education center
1 killed, 1 wounded. Fernando Valdes Alvarez and Alfredo Rosario Solis. Latino males.
https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2022/02/03/2-in-custody-after-shooting-outside-richfield-school/

February 1 – Milwaukee, WI – Rufus King high school
5 wounded. Devon Jobe. Black male.
https://recentlybooked.com/WI/Milwaukee/Devon-Jobe~3054_2022001456

February 4 – Birmingham AL – Wenonah high school
1 wounded. No description of the suspects.

February 8 – Baltimore, MD – Catonsville high school
2 wounded. Sean E Potter Jr and a 16-year-old

February 9 – Minneapolis, MN – Minnesota public school
1 wounded. No description available.

February 9 – Buffalo, NY – McKinley high school
2 wounded. 17-year-old arrested.

March 4 – Olathe, KS – Olathe East high school
2 wounded. Jaylon Desean Elmore– Black male
https://heavy.com/news/jaylon-elmore/

March 7 – Des Moines, IA – East high school
1 killed, 2 wounded.
Octavio Lopez, Nyang Chamdual, Manuel Buezo, Romero Perdomo, Alex Perdomo, Henry Valladares-Amaya. At least four of the six suspects are Latino.
https://cbs2iowa.com/news/local/fir...f-6-suspects-in-des-moines-east-high-shooting

March 9 – Miami Gardens, FL – North Gardens high school
3 wounded. Nathaniel Spikes and Lderrick Session. Black males.
https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local...ounded-in-miami-gardens-shooting/2710581/?amp

March 9 – Dallas, TX – Kimball high school
1 wounded. Kyron Henderson. Black male.
https://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/2022/03/kyron-henderson/

March 15 – Baltimore, MD – Dunbar high school
1 wounded. No suspect description.

March 15 – Dorchester, MA – Tech Boston Academy
2 wounded. Two teenagers arrested. No description available.

March 15 – Yakima, WA – Eisenhower high school
1 killed, 1 wounded. 15-year-old Jesse James Lee Krikorian Jr. "Gang related"

March 23 – Kinsman, AZ – Kingdom unified school district
1 wounded. 14-year-old, no suspect description.

March 28 – Charlotte, NC – Oakdale elementary school
1 wounded. Malachi Huggins. Black male.
https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/p...elementary-school/FCKDWR7YEREGJDRJYOFP2YROG4/

March 31 – Greenville, SC – Tanglewood middle school
1 killed. 12-year-old suspect. No suspect description.

April 5 – Erie, PA – Erie high school
1 injured. 14-year-old. No suspect description.
https://www.goerie.com/story/news/c...ant-john-trucilla-elizabeth-hirz/65353996007/

April 22 – Washington, DC – Edmund Burke school
4 wounded. Raymond Spencer. Asian male.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18346...ol-shooting-washington-dc-connecticut-avenue/

May 12 – Houston, TX – Heights high school
1 wounded. Alex Julien Owiesy. Latino male.
https://www.fox26houston.com/news/t...lso-charged-in-other-violent-crimes-at-school

May 17 – Chicago, IL – Walt Disney magnet school
1 wounded. No description available.

May 19 – Kentwood, MI – East Kentwood high school
2 wounded. Shaakir Abdulwahab and Jacqui Hill. Black males.
https://piowire.com/kent-county-she...s-arraigned-in-crossroads-graduation-shooting

May 24 – Uvalde, TX – Robb elementary school
21 killed, 19 wounded. Salvador Ramos. Latino male.
https://nypost.com/2022/05/31/family-of-uvalde-school-shooter-salvador-ramos-have-criminal-records/

 

[Ranb]

I get the sense the police won't skate on The Public Duty Doctrine. Why? I believe the police failed to protect particular individuals threatened with violence. I believe the police duty to protect as established by the *required* "Active Shooter Response for School-Based Law Enforcement" course by TCOLE (Texas Commission on Law Enforcement).

I read this course several days ago and was struck by how "simple" it seemed to be. Go in and engage, period. Even if you're alone. Simple until you start getting shot anyway.

Based on my experience I can only compare it to a small fire on board a submarine. Go put it out as soon as possible; no PPE, just put it out before it spreads.

My daughter is a police officer near San Antonio. She told me she was trained this way and responded to a school that reported a shooter. She and another officer dashed right in then found out it was a false alarm.

I talked to her about the Uvalde PD response or lack thereof. She most likely has more info than I have and I can tell she is not ready to throw other TX police under the bus, yet. She is very much looking forward to the final report.

 

[Ranb]

Of the 27 shootings at US schools this year, 16 of them have publicly available identifying information of the known shooters. Here's a breakdown:

14 black males
8 Latino males.
1 Asian male.
11 shootings have no suspect description, currently. A lot of these are because courts and law enforcement do not release information about juveniles.

0 known white shooters. We have been lied to. I guess the question now is, will you continue to spread the lie?

Why are you using the word latino as a race description? The US government does not use it that way. In fact the way they do describe people for the census is making race seem rather insignificant.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-conte...Data-on-Race-and-Ethnicity-October30-1997.pdf

Hispanic or Latino. A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race. The term, "Spanish origin," can be used in addition to "Hispanic or Latino"

White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.

 

[Cain]

As promised, I'm back with receipts. Hold onto your socks, they're about to get knocked off.
...
0 known white shooters. We have been lied to. I guess the question now is, will you continue to spread the lie?

Here's the list of shooting incidents if anyone wants to accuse me, again, of leaving out certain types of shooters.

I tried reading through some of these thin reports, but gave up when I got to the guy who shot someone after a basketball game.

Are these supposed to be examples of people "shooting up schools" (i.e., plotted attacks) or is this more personal/opportunistic violence that occurred on school grounds? If you're talking about teen gun violence in general, I don't think anyone will dispute that it's disproportionately Black-on-Black, or that it usually takes place outside of school.

 

[Bogative]

Why are you using the word latino as a race description? The US government does not use it that way. In fact the way they do describe people for the census is making race seem rather insignificant.

I don't know if the shooters actually speak Spanish.

When it comes to the words themselves, there’s an important difference to Hispanic and Latino:

Hispanic specifically concerns the Spanish-language-speaking Latin America and Spain.

Latino and Latina specifically concern those coming from Latin American countries and cultures, regardless of whether the person speaks Spanish.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/hispanic-vs-latino/

 

[Bogative]

I tried reading through some of these thin reports, but gave up when I got to the guy who shot someone after a basketball game.

Are these supposed to be examples of people "shooting up schools" (i.e., plotted attacks) or is this more personal/opportunistic violence that occurred on school grounds? If you're talking about teen gun violence in general, I don't think anyone will dispute that it's disproportionately Black-on-Black, or that it usually takes place outside of school.

If you would've bothered clicking the link I provided, you would see that Education Week Includes any shooting on school grounds during school or any school sanctioned event in their tally.

Unlike Moms Demand or Everytown, who basically count anytime anyone carrying a gun so much as farts in the vicinity of a school as a school shooting, EW reports accurately.

If that doesn't satisfy you, count the shootings that occur in a school and compare them to what plaque 311claims and get back to me.

 

[Warp12]

As promised, I'm back with receipts. Hold onto your socks, they're about to get knocked off.

Since the Uvalde shooting nearly 2 weeks ago, I've noticed a lot of MSM using an organization called "Education Week" as a source of school shootings in the US, they keep a running count of all shootings at US schools. If their information is good enough for WaPo, NPR, NBC News, The Hill, etc. it's good enough for me. They list every school shooting and do not use some hocus-pocus formulation to skew the numbers to fit a particular narrative.

Of the 27 shootings at US schools this year, 16 of them have publicly available identifying information of the known shooters. Here's a breakdown:

14 black males
8 Latino males.
1 Asian male.
11 shootings have no suspect description, currently. A lot of these are because courts and law enforcement do not release information about juveniles.

<snipped>

Thank you for this investigation. I am sure that many others here also appreciate facts over fantasy. Perhaps that group isn't as vocal, but surely it must exist.

 

[Cain]

If you would've bothered clicking the link I provided...

I bothered to click on more than a few of the links you provided, but I guess this is your way of dodging the question.

...you would see that Education Week Includes any shooting on school grounds during school or any school sanctioned event in their tally.

Unlike Moms Demand or Everytown, who basically count anytime anyone carrying a gun so much as farts in the vicinity of a school as a school shooting, EW reports accurately.

Maybe (though probably not) this would be relevant if we were talking about either of those organizations, but you were responding specifically to a user on this site. To illustrate how wildly off-target your non-reply is, let's just assume we went by Everytown's Demanding Marms, which apparently sniffs gun farts, then all of those marginal cases would somehow skew the data to honkies...??

It's odd you would contrast your prized source with Everytown and Moms Demand given my question. I'm asking if these are plotted attacks (as in "I'm going to shoot up the school") versus unplanned opportunistic violence (as in students come to school armed day after day, which increases the chance of gun violence). It's like I'm asking if we should lump quarters in with dollars, and your answer is to complain "thoze other white bitchez wanna include pennies!"

Also, I think your mission here is offensive to other racists. Instead of saying Blacks are the worst at everything, grant that whites are the best at some things -- like mass murder. A proper school shooting requires planning, delay gratification, intelligence. Doesn't your boy Steve Sailer have a "law" of mass shootings that says a high proportion of wounded people suggest Black assailants (exchanging gun fire, spray and pray), whereas a high number of kills suggests a mission-oriented white shooter.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Thank you for this investigation. I am sure that many others here also appreciate facts over fantasy. Perhaps that group isn't as vocal, but surely it must exist.

They are busy trying to keep the quiet stuff quiet.

 

[smartcooky]

They are busy trying to keep the quiet stuff quiet.

... but they keep ******* up and say them out loud!

 

[Bogative]

Maybe (though probably not) this would be relevant if we were talking about either of those organizations, but you were responding specifically to a user on this site. To illustrate how wildly off-target your non-reply is, let's just assume we went by Everytown's Demanding Marms, which apparently sniffs gun farts, then all of those marginal cases would somehow skew the data to honkies...??

I couldn't tell you because I ignore the crap they pump out due to their willingness to lie and deceive people in order to push their gun grabbing agenda.

I'm asking if these are plotted attacks (as in "I'm going to shoot up the school") versus unplanned opportunistic violence (as in students come to school armed day after day, which increases the chance of gun violence).

As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter if they are plotted or not, a school shooting is a school shooting no matter the motivation.

Also, I think your mission here is offensive to other racists.

I think you calling me a racist for posting facts about school shootings is a his poor form of argumentation, but whatevs.

 

[Meadmaker]

Thank you for this investigation. I am sure that many others here also appreciate facts over fantasy. Perhaps that group isn't as vocal, but surely it must exist.

I kinda, sorta, appreciate it, but not a lot.

Facts are always good, but there are a couple of things at work here. One is equivocation. A poster talked about how honkies "shoot up schools" at higher rates than black people. Of course what the original poster was talking about was people who enter a school and try to kill large numbers of people, often at random. Like at Uvalde. Like at Oxford. Like at Sandy Hook. Like at Columbine. That's what he meant, and I'm pretty sure everyone, even Bogative, knew that. So, when Bogative posted statistics that involved all school shootings, i.e. all shootings that happened on the grounds of a school, he really wasn't informing anyone at all. It was deflection.

Bogative didn't even stick to the thread topic of "mass shootings" this time. He included single shootings.

So, it's good information, but it's not a serious response to the original claim, and I don't think it was intended to be.

In general, for this topic, I appreciate how Bogative has posted lots of information, keeping alive the reality that Uvalde-style shootings are a small fraction of the carnage that occurs in the United States, even if we limit ourselves to the group of shootings that fit a definition that the FBI has used in statistics for "mass shootings".

The prevalence of mass shootings is further evidence that guns are a pervasive problem. They have to be taken off the streets in order to reduce the death toll. If we looked strictly at Uvalde or Sandy Hook or similar tragedies (only in the US would the "similar tragedies" be too numerous to name or remember) we might think that if we just get rid of assault weapons, that would be adequate. We might even say that, as horrific as they are, they are statistically insignificant. However, looking at the bigger picture, we see that guns really are a pervasive, massive, problem, and it goes way beyond the AR-15. So, thank you, Bogative, for keeping us away from a narrow focus on a small number of sensational, but rare, tragedies.

However, Bogative, I will admit I share with others a distaste for your reporting style. You often include irrelevant information in your reports. I wish you would stick to the facts. The inclusion of race descriptions makes you seem like a.....well.......I'm never sure exactly what forum rules allow, so I will err on the side of caution and leave my specific judgements unstated.



(Meanwhile, to everyone that isn't Bogative, perhaps it would make sense to start a new thread with a title something like "The USA's most recent spree killing." In the OP, give enough definition to make sure it would exclude most of the incidents' Bogative likes to go on about. I'm not going to do it myself, but I think it would solve a problem with this thread.)

 

[Meadmaker]

I couldn't tell you because I ignore the crap they pump out due to their willingness to lie and deceive people in order to push their gun grabbing agenda.

I assure you that I, at least, never lie or deceive in order to push my gun grabbing agenda.

And "gun grabbing" is very misleading. Neither I nor most politicians would actually propose "grabbing" guns. I, and the politicians I applaud, would, however, make it difficult to buy any gun. I would make it very, very, difficult to carry a gun in public. I would make it almost impossible to buy certain types of guns.

 

[stanfr]

On Thursday five members of a Houston family - two adults and three children - were killed in a rural home in Centerville, a small town in central Texas. The victims were a 66-year-old man, his three grandchildren (one an adult), and a young cousin. The home was a rural property used by the family for weekend visits and vacations.

Their killer was a convict who had escaped from a prison transport bus on May 12 and had until yesterday been the subject of an intensive manhunt. The convict had been serving consecutive life sentences, for murder and for later shooting at a deputy in a previous escape attempt.

It appears to be the case that the killer entered the home either before or shortly after the family had arrived on Thursday afternoon, killed them all likely using guns he found in the home, and fled the scene in a truck also stolen from the home. The victims were found after relatives in Houston called police in Centerville concerned that they hadn't been able to reach them by phone. Police immediately suspected the escaped convict and noted the missing truck and the missing firearms, issuing warnings to the public.

Hours after the victims were found, the killer was spotted in the family's stolen truck outside San Antonio, where we was chased by and eventually had a shootout with police using the same weapons he'd stolen from the house - an AR-15 and a pistol. He was killed in the shootout.

It hasn't been confirmed how they were killed and since the convict was on the loose for some time before entering the complex it is more likely he stole or acquired the weapon beforehand (perhaps from the neighbor's house he previously burglarized) Still, it is a pretty strong counter the NRAist argument that AR-15s are necessary for self defense, certainly didn't help the Collins family any, and he may have targeted them believing they had a weapons cache.

 

[stanfr]

I assure you that I, at least, never lie or deceive in order to push my gun grabbing agenda.

And "gun grabbing" is very misleading. Neither I nor most politicians would actually propose "grabbing" guns. I, and the politicians I applaud, would, however, make it difficult to buy any gun. I would make it very, very, difficult to carry a gun in public. I would make it almost impossible to buy certain types of guns.

It's funny, cause when you listen to the gun-grabbing paranoia argument, you would think all of us who are in favor of logical reasonable restrictions on firearm use and ownership are all part of this same vast communist plot to disarm everyone so that we can install our favorite liberal dictator...yet ironically those same people are the ones who most admire authoritarian wannabe dictators. It's such a rabbit hole of weirdness...