Titanic tourist sub missing

[commandlinegamer]

Pop is one of the last things you want to hear in such a craft.

 

[PitPat]

It would be the last thing you hear before snap and crackle.

 

[jeremyp]

Pop is one of the last things you want to hear in such a craft.

Actually, I believe you're more likely to hear whatever the opposite of pop is at 3,800 metres below the surface.

 

[3point14]

Actually, I believe you're more likely to hear whatever the opposite of pop is at 3,800 metres below the surface.

So....

poP?

 

[Checkmite]

I think it's too early to make assumptions about this.

Properly constructed minisubmersibles with trained crews have descended safely to the Titanic. This person says he intends to make such a sub and claims to want to make sure it will be certified by relevant authorities. That sounds fine to me and is the exact opposite of the OceanGate approach; so I'm going to wait to see what actually gets built before I decide whether it's bad or stupid.

 

[smartcooky]

James Cameron has had a go at the US Coast Guard over their response

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/ente...-made-process-torturous-for-the-families.html

"I literally wrote that on the pad the moment I heard from my naval source, a very reliable source, that they had heard an event and triangulated it to the site [of the sub]," Cameron said.

He said he had made that note on the Monday, making a mockery of the multinational search effort which then unfolded for days.

"It just transformed into this crazy thing," Cameron said.

"Everybody running around with their hair on fire, when we knew right where the sub was.

"Nobody could admit that they didn't have the means to go down and look. So they were running all over the surface and the entire world [was] waiting with bated breath.

"We all knew they were dead. We'd already hoisted a toast to our fallen comrades on [the] Monday night."​

I'm inclined to think he is dead right.

 

[jeremyp]

James Cameron has had a go at the US Coast Guard over their response

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/ente...-made-process-torturous-for-the-families.html

"I literally wrote that on the pad the moment I heard from my naval source, a very reliable source, that they had heard an event and triangulated it to the site [of the sub]," Cameron said.

He said he had made that note on the Monday, making a mockery of the multinational search effort which then unfolded for days.

"It just transformed into this crazy thing," Cameron said.

"Everybody running around with their hair on fire, when we knew right where the sub was.

"Nobody could admit that they didn't have the means to go down and look. So they were running all over the surface and the entire world [was] waiting with bated breath.

"We all knew they were dead. We'd already hoisted a toast to our fallen comrades on [the] Monday night."​

I'm inclined to think he is dead right.

How certain were they at the time that the sub had imploded? If it was less than 100% then it would have been very difficult to say "they're all dead and we'll get a sub out in the next week or two to find the wreckage", because if there was even a remote chance that the crew was still alive and they were found later on the surface but suffocated, things would go a lot worse for the Coast Guard than just having to listen to some harsh words from James Cameron.

 

[smartcooky]

How certain were they at the time that the sub had imploded? If it was less than 100% then it would have been very difficult to say "they're all dead and we'll get a sub out in the next week or two to find the wreckage", because if there was even a remote chance that the crew was still alive and they were found later on the surface but suffocated, things would go a lot worse for the Coast Guard than just having to listen to some harsh words from James Cameron.

This is not like a boat lost at sea. This was an implosion thousands of feet down... there is 0.00000% chance of survival.

Implosion time 20 milliseconds (the brain response time is about 150 milliseconds) you are dead before you know anything has happened. Its like 50KG of TNT going off right next to you.....

WARNING
Content may disturb. Don't watch if you're squeamish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7T_QsoX2Pw


The USCG captain claimed the implosion report wasn't definitive, Cameron's contact in US Naval intelligence confirmed that they triangulated the implosion to the location of Titanic.

Here is the 60 Minutes interview.

 

[jeremyp]

This is not like a boat lost at sea. This was an implosion thousands of feet down... there is 0.00000% chance of survival.

I know that. The point is that, if there was even a slight chance that the sub had not imploded, it would be very hard to call off the search before the air ran out.

The USCG captain claimed the implosion report wasn't definitive, Cameron's contact in US Naval intelligence confirmed that they triangulated the implosion to the location of Titanic.

Exactly my point. If the USCG believed the report was not definitive, they couldn't not do the search.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

How well would, "We heard a bang near the right spot. So they are dead and we're not going to look for survivors," play with the public and the press at the time?

 

[rjh01]

How well would, "We heard a bang near the right spot. So they are dead and we're not going to look for survivors," play with the public and the press at the time?

Even if they knew the sound they heard was the submersible they would still need to find the wreck. If not, then there would all sorts of rubbish written.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Even if they knew the sound they heard was the submersible they would still need to find the wreck. If not, then there would all sorts of rubbish written.

I can't really argue with that but the response would have been a planned approach rather than a costly panicked one.

 

[theprestige]

Is anyone other than Cameron saying the response was panicked and unplanned?

Also, why is Cameron being such a dick about search and rescue efforts? Of all the things to "waste" resources on, that's one of the least objectionable to me. I imagine I'd feel doubly so if I were a deep sea adventurer, who might someday hope the Coast Guard and Navy would go all-out for me, no matter how dire things looked.

I can only surmise that the Coast Guard must have denied him a diving permit at some point, and he's never forgiven them.

Also, doesn't he have a vessel capable of diving to more than twice that depth? Why wasn't he offering his services? Since apparently someone should have gone down there instead of looking for survivors and wreckage on the surface.

Again, why is Cameron being such a dick?

 

[Steve]

Is anyone other than Cameron saying the response was panicked and unplanned?

Also, why is Cameron being such a dick about search and rescue efforts? Of all the things to "waste" resources on, that's one of the least objectionable to me. I imagine I'd feel doubly so if I were a deep sea adventurer, who might someday hope the Coast Guard and Navy would go all-out for me, no matter how dire things looked.

I can only surmise that the Coast Guard must have denied him a diving permit at some point, and he's never forgiven them.

Also, doesn't he have a vessel capable of diving to more than twice that depth? Why wasn't he offering his services? Since apparently someone should have gone down there instead of looking for survivors and wreckage on the surface.

Again, why is Cameron being such a dick?

Simple - "Look at meee!

 

[Ziggurat]

Also, doesn't he have a vessel capable of diving to more than twice that depth? Why wasn't he offering his services?

One obvious possibility is that it wouldn't do any good. And I don't just mean that they were already dead, I mean that it may have been too far away to get there in any reasonable amount of time.

 

[theprestige]

One obvious possibility is that it wouldn't do any good. And I don't just mean that they were already dead, I mean that it may have been too far away to get there in any reasonable amount of time.

Which is why his complaint about nobody wanting to admit they didn't have a deep-diving submersible seems so vacuous to me. He's throwing shade about stuff that he knows doesn't matter, at people he knows are duty-bound to make a best effort anyway, about an effort we should probably celebrate and honor.

 

[Ziggurat]

Which is why his complaint about nobody wanting to admit they didn't have a deep-diving submersible seems so vacuous to me. He's throwing shade about stuff that he knows doesn't matter

Why do you say it doesn't matter? If the Coast Guard had deep sea equipment on hand, they might have confirmed the outcome much sooner, and there's definitely advantages in that. Is having that capability worth the cost? Maybe not, but it doesn't seem obvious to me that the answer is definitely not.

at people he knows are duty-bound to make a best effort anyway

The people who are making the spending and resource allocation decisions aren't actually duty bound to make a best effort. They're supposed to be, but in practice they aren't, and frequently don't.

about an effort we should probably celebrate and honor.

You seem to be conflating the sailors who actually man the ships with the leadership who make decisions.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Which is why his complaint about nobody wanting to admit they didn't have a deep-diving submersible seems so vacuous to me. He's throwing shade about stuff that he knows doesn't matter, at people he knows are duty-bound to make a best effort anyway, about an effort we should probably celebrate and honor.

Unless they were a bunch of worthless migrants, then the coast guard properly lets the worthless people drown. But these people had buy a tour of the Titanic money so they matter unlike refugees.

 

[Checkmite]

Cameron is completely off-base here. "Nobody could admit that they didn't have the means to go down and look"? The USCG announced themselves immediately that they needed to arrange outside assets to search anywhere other than the surface, because their domain is searching for things and survivors on the surface. Why on Earth would the US Coast Guard just have the capability sitting around to search for something two and a half miles down? That's the job of a salvage company.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Why on Earth would the US Coast Guard just have the capability sitting around to search for something two and a half miles down?

Even if they had it, what is the likelihood it would be in a convenient location?