Titanic tourist sub missing

[8enotto]

YT is currently full of short videos of facts about the sub implosion. I'd like to say some had good information early on. But of the latest bunch, but it's becoming a mess of half baked to just plain useless misinformation.

Stick to James C. or the official channels as things filter out from here on.

Pop culture media is just doing what it does best. Post whatever to get likes and subscribers.

 

[jeremyp]

You should have chosen the higher fibre roll.

Titan was a high fibre roll. Look what happened to it.

 

[jeremyp]

YT is currently full of short videos of facts about the sub implosion. I'd like to say some had good information early on. But of the latest bunch, but it's becoming a mess of half baked to just plain useless misinformation.

Stick to James C. or the official channels as things filter out from here on.

Pop culture media is just doing what it does best. Post whatever to get likes and subscribers.

Yes, it's all people recycling other people's stuff. At one point my Youtube feed was about 90% Titan and 90% of those led back to Janes Cameron's interview or the one he did with him and Bob Ballard.

Two others that stood out for me were the one I posted earlier with the other unlicensed sub operator and Thunderf00t's explanation of why implosions are so violent. From the latter, I learned that "water is incompressible" is a half truth at best.

 

[Axxman300]

Ocean Liner Designs had a quality video on the Titan and the subsequent search:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O5F4ZVlIac

This is a quality overview of OceanGate and the Titan from a layman's perspective. His channel covers the great ocean liners, and shipwrecks thereof. If this subject is of interest to you, this channel goes deep into the weeds of the minutia of how things work on these old boats, down to ventilation, and navigation.

 

[smartcooky]

Fake "last" messages from the "sub" are . . . surfacing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ2HjMP_nbg

HOWEVER

Truth : OceanGate Titan Sub Did Not Send Any Last Messages!

There really are some weird people in this world.

I have just watched the video posted below

Comments:

The communication transcript in this video, between Titan and its support vessel, "Polar Prince" has not been officially released or endorsed. Nonetheless it seems possible that someone has leaked it. In this is video, Jeff Ostroff goes through the transcript step by step, and identifies some key information.

• a. Titan was descending too fast (almost 40% to 50% faster than it should have been).
  
• b. Once they released the ballast weights and ditched the frame, they began to ascend, but far too slowly.
  
• c. They had about 19 minutes warning that something was seriously wrong.

NOTE: Keeping in mind there is a small possibility that the transcript may be fake, this video is still worth a look.



Further comment: Jeff Ostroff claims to be an engineer, but I can't find any licensing or qualification information about him. However, this information can be notoriously hard to find on the web, so I'm not arguing that he is unqualified. His YouTube channel appears credible, and from what I have seen, he does not appear to make wild or off-the-wall claims.
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[Checkmite]

NOTE: Keeping in mind there is a small possibility that the transcript may be fake, this video is still worth a look.
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On the contrary, the video presenter doesn't seem to be able to give a single reason to positively believe it's authentic, beyond simply reiterating the truism that it possibly could be.

I acknowledge the possibility but until it's vetted I don't feel like giving it much credit. I also don't think that anything would be lost if we wait until it's vetted to take it seriously as opposed to analyzing it right now.

 

[erwinl]

On the contrary, the video presenter doesn't seem to be able to give a single reason to positively believe it's authentic, beyond simply reiterating the truism that it possibly could be.

I acknowledge the possibility but until it's vetted I don't feel like giving it much credit. I also don't think that anything would be lost if we wait until it's vetted to take it seriously as opposed to analyzing it right now.

I'm not really impressed with Jeff Ostroff. It may be that what he has is genuine, but I really like to see confirmation of that.

Haven't seen this movie of his yet, but during the Miami Condo collapse, his videos, while interesting, never went beyond 'might be, could be, seems like a problem'. Where what you'd expect from an engineer is something like the nitty gritty calculations detailing where the problems are.
Something like what 'Building Integrity' does. His video's are long and really detailed, but are what you'd expect from an engineer.

So, back to mr. Ostroff. Maybe a genuine transcript, but let's wait and see if it is.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I had watched and was about to post a link to Ostroff's video. My personal thinking is that I'll reserve judgement until I hear from a real, official resource.

It is too easy to make up and post tall tales.

 

[shemp]

Looks like OceanGate has come to their senses and suspended operations:

OceanGate suspends exploration and commercial operations after the deadly implosion of its TItan submersible

OceanGate – the owner of the Titan submersible that imploded during a voyage to the Titanic, killing all five people on board – says it has suspended its exploration and commercial operations, according to its website.

The company’s CEO, Stockton Rush, was among those who perished in the disaster in the North Atlantic Ocean last month.

“OceanGate has suspended all exploration and commercial operations,” the top of the company’s official website said Thursday. But the site still features highlight reels of equipment and expeditions, as well as descriptions of expedition offerings such as touring the Titanic wreckage.

CNN is reaching out to OceanGate for more information.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Looks like OceanGate has come to their senses and suspended operations:

OceanGate suspends exploration and commercial operations after the deadly implosion of its TItan submersible

Maybe Stockton had all the passwords and this is how long it took to find out how print anything on company letterhead.

 

[TellyKNeasuss]

I also read an article (which I can't find right now) about a European (I believe Italian) expert who theorized that the Titan lost power and because the weight of the passengers was concentrated near the view port it rotated to nose down, causing it to descend faster than usual, and that the increased speed of descent would have been enough to cause the difference in response to increasing pressure between the view port and the rest of the hull to become large enough to cause microscopic cracks to develop.

It turns out this alleged expert is from Spain, not Italy. A shorter article about his theory is here:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/new...tp&cvid=2c9b7158733d4406bc71f5a69c3d7301&ei=9

In his scenario, the passengers would have been aware that they were descending at an unsafe rate.

IMHO, the article did not contain enough information to evaluate his credibility, but then again I know nothing about materials engineering.

 

[The Man]

It turns out this alleged expert is from Spain, not Italy. A shorter article about his theory is here:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/new...tp&cvid=2c9b7158733d4406bc71f5a69c3d7301&ei=9

In his scenario, the passengers would have been aware that they were descending at an unsafe rate.

IMHO, the article did not contain enough information to evaluate his credibility, but then again I know nothing about materials engineering.

Well, certainly from a materials engineering standpoint descending at an unsafe rate would put far more differential stress on components than intend and hopefully at least designed for, regardless of construction. **** needs time to settle the stress to the new strain locations of material elements. Questions being were they descending at an unsafe rate and what were the safe rate limits, if any, that the construction was engineered for? Other than just we did it this fast before and didn’t have a problem. Oops a little too fast this last time and now have to patch **** up, let’s go again.

Stress vs. Strain: What Are the Key Differences?

ETA: This is all just sickening to me.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Some of the costs coming in:

It cost more than $2.4M for one RCAF plane to join Titanic sub search

Hubris vs my tax dollars.

I wonder what insurance OceanGate has?

Not that it matters. States provide such rescue efforts per internal treaties for free as it is, "It is a longstanding custom and rule of the international law of the sea, international maritime law, and international humanitarian law."

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Just thinking out loud.

If they were descending too fast, it would seem the thrusters would be involved, and malfunctioning - not responding to controls.

Otherwise, the amount of ballast used would be the primary means of determining descent rate.

I'm pretty sure,( for no good reason other than apparent shoddy design ) Titan did not have a variable ballast system like Deepsea Challenger, where they could release controlled amount of pellets to adjust descent rate.

 

[jeremyp]

Some of the costs coming in:

It cost more than $2.4M for one RCAF plane to join Titanic sub search

Hubris vs my tax dollars.

I wonder what insurance OceanGate has?

Not that it matters. States provide such rescue efforts per internal treaties for free as it is, "It is a longstanding custom and rule of the international law of the sea, international maritime law, and international humanitarian law."

It's a partial fallacy. If the crews of these planes don't have real emergencies to attend, they have to do exercises instead to stop their skills from atrophying. Flying over the ocean looking for a fake person in distress doesn't cost nothing.

 

[jeremyp]

Just thinking out loud.

If they were descending too fast, it would seem the thrusters would be involved, and malfunctioning - not responding to controls.

Otherwise, the amount of ballast used would be the primary means of determining descent rate.

I'm pretty sure,( for no good reason other than apparent shoddy design ) Titan did not have a variable ballast system like Deepsea Challenger, where they could release controlled amount of pellets to adjust descent rate.

They might have miscalculated the weight. If the recently released transcript is genuine, they were descending faster than expected and once they released all of the ballast (including the landing frame) they still could not ascend at a reasonable rate. One possible explanation is that they were too heavy.

If I were designing the sub, I would make it so that it would be able to descend and ascend without thrusters, not just because it's a fail safe mode, but also because you don't need to use so much electrical charge running the thrusters.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Let's not forget that the transscript about fast descent is unconfirmed. What strikes me as fishy is that neither topside nor sub crew reacted to the first or at least the second report indicating too fast descent. A reasonable reaction would be to immediately try to slow the descent and if unsuccessful, abort the mission and make for the surface.

Hans

 

[Puppycow]

Some of the costs coming in:

It cost more than $2.4M for one RCAF plane to join Titanic sub search

Hubris vs my tax dollars.

I wonder what insurance OceanGate has?

Not that it matters. States provide such rescue efforts per internal treaties for free as it is, "It is a longstanding custom and rule of the international law of the sea, international maritime law, and international humanitarian law."

I wonder how much of those costs are marginal extra costs and how much is simply costs that would have been incurred anyway. Planes like these probably log a lot of flight time anyway for no other reason than training and routine patrols. The crew would be paid in any case.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

It's a partial fallacy. If the crews of these planes don't have real emergencies to attend, they have to do exercises instead to stop their skills from atrophying. Flying over the ocean looking for a fake person in distress doesn't cost nothing.

Yup. I'm aware of that (I used to have a peripheral association with an air ambulance service. Keeping the crews and equipment on hot standby was a big part of the expense of the service). But it's not chump change.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Let's not forget that the transscript about fast descent is unconfirmed. What strikes me as fishy is that neither topside nor sub crew reacted to the first or at least the second report indicating too fast descent. A reasonable reaction would be to immediately try to slow the descent and if unsuccessful, abort the mission and make for the surface.

Hans

That certainly struck me as a bit weird too. I would presume (ha ha) that they had some sort of "flight plan" to measure things against and no one said anything about the rate when it was first reported? Not even, "OH goody. We are going faster than expected and should be there in 15 minutes"?