Titanic tourist sub missing

[Andy_Ross]

I have seen claims that he got the carbon fibre at a discounted it had gone out of date for aerospace use

 

[Andy_Ross]

Apparently TV adventurer Ross Kemp had planned to film a television show that involved a dive to the Titanic wreck site in the OceanGate submersible but it was cancelled over safety fears.

His production company Atlantic Productions decided the Titan was not "fit for purpose".

 

[PartSkeptic]

Using college graduates, encouraging "innovation" ignoring the warning of experts. What a recipe for disaster.

Here is a video of carbon fiber versus titanium being put under pressure.
https://youtu.be/PlvyZ1r1DCM
Just coincidence that I saw it.

The sub was descending at a rate of 0.6 meters per second (100 minutes to 4000 meters).

It is possible that it landed on a pointed rock or piece of steel on the seabed. Imagine what that would do to a brittle carbon fiber hull. The additional stress would be enormous for a vessel weighing tons having to do an abrupt stop.

Did they have a downward camera? Did they have a heavy weight on a long cable to stop their descent and avoid such a possibility? It seems not.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Twitter has given a caption to that that says it's an altered image, and a link to
https://www.pmel.noaa.gov/eoi/nemo1998/education/pressure.html

BOOOOOO!

 

[Darat]

I spoke too soon..

Still hard to believe there is not some type of liner inside the CF hull.

It also looks as if the lighting/grab bars are also screwed into the ceiling.

 

[Mike!]

It's like they had a whole list of really bad ideas that were all required to be implemented in order to call it complete.

Drill some screws into the carbon fiber hull? Sure! What harm could that cause?
It'd be smarter to just epoxy some pre machined CF pads wherever things need to be mounted than risk any compromise of the hull whatsoever.

Gotta give billionaires credit for coming up with some of the most elaborate and expensive suicide machines possible while still managing to cut criticals corners.

"You realize for every redundant backup system it effectively doubles the cost of that feature, don't you? Now order these motors I found on ebay."

 

[Andy_Ross]

It's like they had a whole list of really bad ideas that were all required to be implemented in order to call it complete.

Drill some screws into the carbon fiber hull? Sure! What harm could that cause?
It'd be smarter to just epoxy some pre machined CF pads wherever things need to be mounted than risk any compromise of the hull whatsoever.

Gotta give billionaires credit for coming up with some of the most elaborate and expensive suicide machines possible while still managing to cut criticals corners.

"You realize for every redundant backup system it effectively doubles the cost of that feature, don't you? Now order these motors I found on ebay."

And this out of date carbon preprgeg mat

 

[jeremyp]

i know they have to say it was sudden and painless, but no way

The pressure wave travels faster than nerve signals. By the time they might have known what was happening, there was no brain left to process the signals.

 

[jeremyp]

It's like they had a whole list of really bad ideas that were all required to be implemented in order to call it complete.

Drill some screws into the carbon fiber hull? Sure! What harm could that cause?
It'd be smarter to just epoxy some pre machined CF pads wherever things need to be mounted than risk any compromise of the hull whatsoever.

Gotta give billionaires credit for coming up with some of the most elaborate and expensive suicide machines possible while still managing to cut criticals corners.

"You realize for every redundant backup system it effectively doubles the cost of that feature, don't you? Now order these motors I found on ebay."

It's more like a whole body Russian Roulette machine.

 

[jeremyp]

You couldn't make up stuff like this.

Ironically, he probably never knew how wrong he was.

 

[Pixel42]

"For a successful technology reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."

- Richard Feynman, in his report on the Challenger disaster.

 

[jeremyp]

"For a successful technology reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."

- Richard Feynman, in his report on the Challenger disaster.

I was going to post that quote myself last night. The parallels with certain people involved in Challenger are uncanny. In that case, they thought it was safe enough for passengers too.

 

[alfaniner]

Josh Gates, host of Discovery's Expedition Unknown, actually made a dive in the Titan, but they decided not to film a show featuring it because of problems during the dive.
josh-gates-titanic-sub-dive-concerns-

 

[Myriad]

While the implosion itself had to have been instantaneous, there might have been some sign of trouble beforehand. Most likely just a fraction of a second before, but there could have been something a few seconds before, or longer. Maybe even from the acoustic warning system they supposedly had in operation.

One factor investigators will look at, and will probably be able to determine with some confidence, is whether the Titan dropped ballast (by any significant interval of time) before imploding.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

While the implosion itself had to have been instantaneous, there might have been some sign of trouble beforehand. Most likely just a fraction of a second before, but there could have been something a few seconds before, or longer. Maybe even from the acoustic warning system they supposedly had in operation.

Plenty of time to say " Oh( whatever) ! " .

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Plenty of time to say " Oh( whatever) ! " .

Is it supposed to do tha...

 

[Checkmite]

One factor investigators will look at, and will probably be able to determine with some confidence, is whether the Titan dropped ballast (by any significant interval of time) before imploding.

Hold your horses, though - let's reality check this.

The US Coast Guard and other government agencies, along with any contractors they hired, who were involved in the SAR effort have already completely disengaged. Is there anyone, in fact, who is "investigating" this incident and its causes?

It seems to me that whether there is any kind of investigation or not is OceanGate's prerogative; but a proper investigation would require actually recovering portions of the debris from the sea floor, and OceanGate does not have the assets to do that, nor (I predict) will they have the money to pay someone else with the right equipment to do it for them. So who do we imagine the investigators are and who will be paying them?

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Hold your horses, though - let's reality check this.

The US Coast Guard and other government agencies, along with any contractors they hired, who were involved in the SAR effort have already completely disengaged. Is there anyone, in fact, who is "investigating" this incident and its causes?

It seems to me that whether there is any kind of investigation or not is OceanGate's prerogative; but a proper investigation would require actually recovering portions of the debris from the sea floor, and OceanGate does not have the assets to do that, nor (I predict) will they have the money to pay someone else with the right equipment to do it for them. So who do we imagine the investigators are and who will be paying them?

Canada and U.S. launch separate investigations into Titan submersible disaster

 

[dann]

An opinion piece in WP by Sam Howe Verhovek wants us to consider Rush's side of the story and compares him to the Wright brothers, Lindbergh and the Apollo 11 astronauts:

Was Rush reckless? Given the outcome, there’s a strong case for yes, though a full inquiry may yet exonerate him to some degree. But if an experimental approach to discovery is a crime, then we might as well put the Wright brothers, Charles Lindbergh and Apollo’s lunar-bound astronauts on trial. All of them took frightful risks that could have as easily ended in disaster as in triumph.
Before condemning the Titan’s pilot, consider his side of the story (Washington Post, June 24, 2023)

Very few of the comments agree with the author. I find it interesting that "each passenger signed a release that, according to one previous passenger on Titan, explicitly mentioned the possibility of death no less than three times on the first page."

 

[Myriad]

Hold your horses, though - let's reality check this.

The US Coast Guard and other government agencies, along with any contractors they hired, who were involved in the SAR effort have already completely disengaged. Is there anyone, in fact, who is "investigating" this incident and its causes?

It seems to me that whether there is any kind of investigation or not is OceanGate's prerogative; but a proper investigation would require actually recovering portions of the debris from the sea floor, and OceanGate does not have the assets to do that, nor (I predict) will they have the money to pay someone else with the right equipment to do it for them. So who do we imagine the investigators are and who will be paying them?

As far as I know, the who's-in-charge info hasn't been announced, and might not even have been fully resolved yet. But last I heard, the deep ROVs and their support vessel(s) were staying on scene to map the debris field and possibly assist in the recovery of debris.