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Time To Grow Up.

It is true that many African religions, especially the ones which do awful things, are shamanistic and may involve multiple gods, however, this is about as far removed from Wiccan as Christianity is from the Raelians.

Wiccans, and neopagans here in the west are full of silly ideas, but they are probably the most loving and accepting religion that exists today. Their catch phrase is, "Harm none". They don't really care which "incarnation" of The Goddess you worship, even if you call it Jesus Christ, so long as you respect the religion of others and do no harm.

I'm married to a wiccan, and I wouldn't trade her for any of the hate-filled Christians that Kathy, Huntster and Canadian seem to represent, though Mr. Clingfords ilk would be a different matter.

But in the acts of the horrible abusers, whether they be African Shamans or American fraud psychic Christians, I don't blame the religion. I blame the person. Sometimes it is a person who is using their religion to teach others to be abusive, but it still comes down to humans. Gods don't do anything. They are just the excuse.
 
kurious_kathy said:
I am concerned about this statement you are copying from Randi's commentary. It is said that the rising teenage religion is Wicca which is definitely considered witchcraft,

[nonsense snipped for brievity]

Also it concerns me even more because these things are also fortold in scripture.
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In a couple of other threads, you asked how we can turn away from Jesus's teachings and reject the Gospel. I will tell you.

Many of us were once members of a church. We listened to preachers and authors tell us stuff about religion and the world, much the same way that you have heard things about the Wiccans. Then, one day, we decided to do some research to see if these things were true. We learned that they were not. We then did more research comparing what we were taught about the world to what we actually knew about the world and discovered that the gap between the church's teachings about how the world was and how the world actually was so great that the two could not be reconciled. At that point we chose to believe in the world rather than believe in the lies, half-truths, and just plain nonsense being peddled by the church.

If you are brave enough Kathy, I suggest doing some research about what Wicca really is.
 
kurious_kathy said:
Also consider most of the people into these two things, Wicca and Satanism, most of them are on mega drugs which makes them totally out of conrtrol and unable to use any logic or reason when a parent or adult may be trying to help them. If the only way to save them is to use tough love, then so be it. Everyone reaps what they sow, even rebellious teens.
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Wow, just wow. You're ignorance and bigotry keeps reaching new heights. I know many Pagans and none of them are into drugs. As a nature-based religion, they're very in to keeping the body healthy. They're very nice, very respectful, and accepting people - unlike many Christians I know.

And as for your 'tough love' - that could very well be considered ritualistic abuse. Doesn't Christian doctrine support corporal punishment for children? The whole "spare the rod and spoil the child thing?"

Kathy, why don't you try meeting some of the people you condemn without prejuding them? I think you're incapable of it because you are so holier than thou and willing to condemn your fellow man.
 
Ladewig said:
In a couple of other threads, you asked how we can turn away from Jesus's teachings and reject the Gospel. I will tell you.

Many of us were once members of a church. We listened to preachers and authors tell us stuff about religion and the world, much the same way that you have heard things about the Wiccans. Then, one day, we decided to do some research to see if these things were true. We learned that they were not. We then did more research comparing what we were taught about the world to what we actually knew about the world and discovered that the gap between the church's teachings about how the world was and how the world actually was so great that the two could not be reconciled. At that point we chose to believe in the world rather than believe in the lies, half-truths, and just plain nonsense being peddled by the church.

If you are brave enough Kathy, I suggest doing some research about what Wicca really is.
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And its not just Wicca. After I left the Episcopal church because of "learning too much about them", I tried a variety of other churches, including Baptist, Methodist, Church of Christ, Presbyterian, Christian Scientist and went to a couple of Roman Catholic masses. What I found was that they all snipe at each other too. Sometimes it's in the sermon, sometime in "Sunday School", sometimes just in conversation. The Baptists hate the Catholics and the Catholics hate the Episcopalians and everybody hates the Mormons.

After witnessing this festival of love, I decided I'd better find my own way. But no matter what established belief system I tried, they all seemed to have somebody they were pi**ed off at. So I gave it up and became a free agent. The first group that convinces me of the existence of their God gets my dedication.

[funny story]
When I was going to the Church of Christ, I was in the minister's office to talk about some questions I had, and the mail came in while I was waiting to talk to the minister. Curious as to what kind of mail a church gets, I peeked through the stack. One thing was a junk mail advertisement addressed to "Mr. 4th Avenue Church of Christ" which asked the question, "Stuck in a dead-end, low-paying job, Mr. Christ?"
[/funny story]
 
Ladewig said:
Many of us were once members of a church. We listened to preachers and authors tell us stuff about religion and the world, much the same way that you have heard things about the Wiccans. Then, one day, we decided to do some research to see if these things were true. We learned that they were not. We then did more research comparing what we were taught about the world to what we actually knew about the world and discovered that the gap between the church's teachings about how the world was and how the world actually was so great that the two could not be reconciled. At that point we chose to believe in the world rather than believe in the lies, half-truths, and just plain nonsense being peddled by the church.
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I have found that when I examined the Church's official teachings I found them to be much less rigid (and basically, wrong) than what may be taught by youth groups, pastors etc, especially of fundamentalist churches. I have found that actually there is very little gap at all between some Christian teaching and 'the world's'.

Tricky - did you ever try the Quakers? I have a lot of time for them and attended their meetings for a few months.
 
Mr Clingford said:
Excellent, a new phrase. I don't know it so you will have to bring me to a new place of enlightenment.
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Sorry, not a real phrase, just a complex series of word associations which resulted in a twisted and not very funny series of puns.
Mr Clingford said:
But they're not into the blame game.
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When you said "game" my mind jumped to "sports". In sports, (basketball and American football) a fast-paced offense is called the "run and gun". Quakers are famous for being non-violent (warhawks would say they "run") and for their treatment of offenders within their community which consists of ignoring or "shunning" them. Ergo, "run-and-shun".

Also, I meant to say "I hear they prefer..." in the pun, so it sounds even stupider.

Aren't you sorry you asked?
 
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Two nation seperated by a common tongue; I wasn't familiar with "run and gun", or that shunning either.

I will get on my knees and beg forgiveness for both our pecadilli from the Pun of God.
 
Because they put shrimp on the barbie?

Which at my house would result in a fashion doll being covered with shellfish. Ew.
 
So, Kurious_Kathy, have you reconsidered your position about Wicca?

Are you prepared to admit you were mistaken about their beliefs and practices or are you going to hold the view that you stated earlier?
 
kurious_kathy said:
I do not think parents taking a stand against their childs rebellion should be considered wrong.
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What if the child of Wiccan parents converts to Christianity?

Do you advocate parents taking a stand against the child's rebellion then as well?
 
Ryokan said:
What if the child of Wiccan parents converts to Christianity?

Do you advocate parents taking a stand against the child's rebellion then as well?
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Can't argue that way, I don't think. She probably won't see any intellectual dishonesty in a conflicting answer, as I suspect she believes Christianity is right and Wicca is wrong. If I am incorrect, of course, please feel free to correct me, Kathy, I'd love to see some fair-mindedness from you.
 
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