Time to end the Cuba embargo?

leftysergeant said:
The embargo should never have been put in place to begin with. We have never successfully engaged Communism with force of any kind. It is generally as useless as mass infantry formations to put down what Clausewitz called a people's war. The foreign force just about always losing in the long term.



You assume too much.




Who the hell needs them to? The Cubans can build their own stuff if they have the capital from selling their tobacco and sugar to the nearest country with a healthy(?) ecconomy.



And they won't be bringing all the environmental problems to displace the working class and peasants off the land and reducing the girls to prostitution like they did when the Mafia ran the country.
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I guess the collapse of the Soviet Union and that even most Socialists think that Soviet Style Marxism just do not work nowdays has kind of passed Lefty by.
 
Obama may not have lifted the embargo, and he may not. However, he did lift the ban on Cuban musicians having concerts in the USA.
 
ZirconBlue said:
Money will come rolling in for Cuban cigars. And sandwiches.
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but will them no longer being illegal affect the market price in the US? lol

honestly i had heard during obamas campaign that lifting the embargo was something he wanted to do

although if cuba is hard up for US dollars they can start cashing the rent checks for gitmo
 
Whoever see's over the lifting of the embargo will suffer politically for it. Thus I don't see it happening anytime soon.
 
The embargo was placed on Cuba because they tried to swipe America's stuff, not because of their stupid state ideology and human rights record.
 
I say lift it already.

It would help U.S. foreign policy and give the Anti-American whiners something to shove down their pie holes.
 
Right now there is an effort to open travel to Cuba. As a diver, I would love to dive Cuba without doing what other Americans do: traveling to grand cayman and visiting cuba from there, they don't stamp your passport. Its a "wink wink" loophole in the travel ban.

However, visiting Cuba is difficult morally (for me anyway). The resorts.... well.. you can do your own reading. I'm not sure I would go unless they liberalized tourism on their side.

No matter how much sense it makes to end the embargo, and let people who think its a good idea boycott Cuban goods, I just don't think it will be politically viable until the Castro brothers are gone. We have ex-Cubans living in America who remembers their family members being killed by death squads in the revolution. That is a powerful grudge to get over.
 
casebro said:
Casinos, clubs, hotels, racetracks, plantations...
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That wasn't ours to begin with. Most of it was Mafia-owned. The plantations were keeping the Cuban people poor because they were producing bananas for United Fruit rather than the beans the peasants needed to stay alive.

I remember seeing the story in a magazine of some American whining abnout his family's frog farm being nationalized, and I remember thinking how petty he seemed after all the misery that our support of the Batista regime had caused sdome families in Cuba before the revolution.

I have no sympathy for foreign investors who support a dirtbag like Batista and then lose all their concessions in the revolution that must follow when people realize that that is the only way they can survive.

No American had anything in Cuba but through the graces of Batista or from the point of an American bayonette in the Spanish-American War.

They were just taking Cuba back from us and our crime families.
 
ProBonoShill said:
I say lift it already.

It would help U.S. foreign policy and give the Anti-American whiners something to shove down their pie holes.
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Tell you what, the EU will pass their own version of the Helms Burton legislation which makes it illegal for US corporations to operate in a country we don't like and then we'll threaten to arrest any of your citizens so involved when they visit us. See how you like a taste of your own medicine.

Or as that just us "whining" because we're Anti-American, rather than blatant mis-use of domestic US law to enforce the embargo on third party states?
 
Architect said:
Tell you what, the EU will pass their own version of the Helms Burton legislation which makes it illegal for US corporations to operate in a country we don't like and then we'll threaten to arrest any of your citizens so involved when they visit us. See how you like a taste of your own medicine.

Or as that just us "whining" because we're Anti-American, rather than blatant mis-use of domestic US law to enforce the embargo on third party states?
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What??????

Admittedly I'm not an expert on U.S./Cuban relations, but I believe the embargo was established because Americans weren't comfortable with having a Russian controlled satellite located 90 miles from the Florida coast.

Since it's pretty evident Russia lost the Cold war, the embargo is no longer needed.

If it were to be lifted, the characters in the world who claim the U.S.A. are imperialists with goals to take over the world, would have a tough time rationalizing the end of sanctions.
 
Cleon said:
Not really, considering that while Fidel was President, he was Commander in Chief anyway.

There hasn't been any substantial change with Raul as President.
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How very forgiving. :rolleyes:

If Obama got sick and Gates took control of his office, you'd be screaming your head off.

But I guess Cuba is a special place.
 
And you don't think there is a difference between Obama running and being elected President in an open, fair and free election...and Fidel running in a one party state where the difference between the party and the military run by his Brother and right-hand man is marginal?

Not arguing here that Raul is a good guy. Only that the situation in Cuba with Raul in charge, if he is in charge, is not substantively different than with Fidel in Charge. Whereas if Gates stepped into the Presidency of the US, it would be an open violation of the rule of law. Since "rule of law" is a foriegn concept in a Marxist/Socialist One Party State like Cuba, it is more or less a silly argument.

In fact, argauably, the Army taking a "lead" position in Cuba makes Cuba even more like more traditional South American/Latin American dictatorships where the "Caudillo" was head of the army. This can be a bad situation...such as in Venezuala or as was the case of Chile under Pinnochet. It could also -- though I think it unlikely -- smooth the way to change. The Army, in theory at leasts, may have very different concerns and a stake in how the society functions than strict party adherents and bureaucrats.

Anyway, please explain why anyone should be more worried that Raul and the Army are in charge than Fidel? More likely to attack the US? More likely to be deeper in bed with Chavez (how?)? More likely to develop nuclear arms?

Practically speaking what is the difference that you see and fear?

If the collapse is coming to Cuba -- and an argument can be made that with the passing of Fidel sometime in the next five or so years (likely) and Raul sometime after -- will the Army be a hinderence of actually a facilitator of a transition?

It seems to me it really doesn't make much difference, so please explain why you think it does?
 
leftysergeant said:
The embargo should never have been put in place to begin with. We have never successfully engaged Communism with force of any kind. It is generally as useless as mass infantry formations to put down what Clausewitz called a people's war. The foreign force just about always losing in the long term.



You assume too much.




Who the hell needs them to? The Cubans can build their own stuff if they have the capital from selling their tobacco and sugar to the nearest country with a healthy(?) ecconomy.



And they won't be bringing all the environmental problems to displace the working class and peasants off the land and reducing the girls to prostitution like they did when the Mafia ran the country.
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I wanna hear how this is the GOP's fault. I know it is, I just wanna hear your rationale.
 
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