“This is what tolerance looks like at UC Berkeley”

rdwight said:
Sorry but I don't think there is a reason to prove antifa 'started' the aggression. If KKK members showed up at a black lives matter rally, and a brawl ensued, I wouldn't be asking who started the aggression.(no, I am not equating the two groups) It is not like antifa is known for their peaceful protests and friendly demeanor to opposing groups. Had it been a young Republicans group from the local college, I would be more inclined to view the situation differently. Personal bias I guess.

As for the girl, she was in the fray of the fights in photo 15 from that slideshow, and as pointed out in photo 18 involved in another altercation, and then the one in which she was punched. You can argue his punch was excessive for sure, but it doesn't seem like she just found herself all of a sudden in a bad situation. She put herself there repeatedly. And her interview shows she is blatantly lying, so not much sympathy from me.
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Agreed, it is not really important. The significant thing to me is the postings here; the majority place the protesters as instigators, openly or subtly. I don't see that. I do see white supremacists and other neo-nazis being embraced by the pro-Trump crowd, and it is...concerning, to say the least. Every time a post goes up saying 'look at what these violent leftist anarccisist kooks are doing now', the neos are normalized a little more. White Supremacists unquestioningly being grouped the the good guy team is far more troubling to me.
 
Stout said:
You heard that eh ? You heard that scalping was the "barf out, gag me with a spoon" equivalent of stealing someone's hat. That kind of stretching would impress even Mr. Fantastic. :)
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On the East Coast, it was trendy for a while to wear brand new baseball caps with the tags still on them. I do specifically recall the term 'scalping' being used to describe knocking off the hat. Was not a big thing, believe whatever you want.

No, dude, it was a bottle not even antifa is trying to claim it was anything else. She was holding it. Download the Reuters pick, zoom in on it but if you want to pass it off as something like a paper mâché sculpture that she picked up at the nearby farmers market, you're more than welcome to have at 'er.
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:confused: I agreed earlier that it was a bottle. For you to spin that into brandishing what you called a 'deadly weapon' and declaring her the aggressor as the result was what I intended to underscore.

So now it is a bottle. Good, we're making progress.
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Agreed to at least twice earlier. Methinks I smells a strawman being formed.

So is it your position that she just innocently showed up at a gang fight, wearing her gang colours and was quietly standing there getting drunk when, for no reason at all, she was violently attacked by Captain Master Race ? If it is, I'm wondering why she didn't say that in the interview.
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Strawman away!

We're playing connect the dots here and working with what we got. Most of are following the numbers and coming up with the correct picture however all of this "colouring outside the lines" and not following the intended instructions are resulting in a picture that rather abstract and with a meaning that's only evident to the artist.
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Saying she must have been the aggressor because she was holding a deadly weapon is not connecting the dots, it is drawing another picture.
 
MostlyDead said:
On the East Coast, it was trendy for a while to wear brand new baseball caps with the tags still on them. I do specifically recall the term 'scalping' being used to describe knocking off the hat. Was not a big thing, believe whatever you want.



:confused: I agreed earlier that it was a bottle. For you to spin that into brandishing what you called a 'deadly weapon' and declaring her the aggressor as the result was what I intended to underscore.



Agreed to at least twice earlier. Methinks I smells a strawman being formed.



Strawman away!



Saying she must have been the aggressor because she was holding a deadly weapon is not connecting the dots, it is drawing another picture.
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Moldylocks was just going for the east coast cred, ya see, just knocking off people's hats.

Saying she must have been the aggressor because she was holding a deadly weapon is not connecting the dots, it is drawing another picture.
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You serious? What a laugh.
 
MostlyDead said:
:confused: I agreed earlier that it was a bottle. For you to spin that into brandishing what you called a 'deadly weapon' and declaring her the aggressor as the result was what I intended to underscore.
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What you said was...."it looks like a bottle and it looks like she is holding it, but in fairness it may not be"

Is that the east coast way of acknowledging something is true ?

Strawman away!
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That's not a strawman, that's a question.

Saying she must have been the aggressor because she was holding a deadly weapon is not connecting the dots, it is drawing another picture.
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Strange customs you have there on the east coast. knocking off peoples hats, holding your bottles like you'd hold a club. I must visit there someday.
 
The Big Dog said:
The fact that she went to get into a fight and then complains she got into a fight is ridiculous
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Getting into a fight was not the problem as she wanted to but not being able to control how it would end
Which is always a problem when ones opponents are equally as enthusiastic in wanting to inflict violence
 
The kiwi link references a claim that the champagne bottle was photoshopped. I take it to be genuine but I could be wrong. And I only
mentioned it in passing because those who mentioned it regarded the photo as real. Not a significant debating point for me personally
 
MostlyDead said:
Every time a post goes up saying 'look at what these violent leftist anarccisist kooks are doing now', the neos are normalized a little more. White Supremacists unquestioningly being grouped the the good guy team is far more troubling to me.
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Couldn't I also argue that every time a post goes up defending the violent actions of leftist anarchist's due to who they are disagreeing with, their actions are being normalized more?

I think I have the capacity to hold both groups negative actions in contempt, without either negative action becoming normalized. I have faith that others do too.
 
MostlyDead said:
White Supremacists unquestioningly being grouped the the good guy team is far more troubling to me.
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What else did you expect? The forum is largely right-wing, a collection of liberals and conservatives who have historically been allied with fascists against the left[*], as well as American, so a deeper analysis than "good guys! good guys!" vs "bad guys! bad guys!" should not be expected.

* and still are, for example the government here in Belgium is made up of a coalition of liberals and fascists
 
Mycroft said:
"Squats" comes from squatter, as in someone who unlawfully inhabits buildings or land they are not legally entitled to inhabit.

I'm sure you know this, but I want to make sure everyone else is also familiar with the vocabulary.
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Why the sudden concern about people's familiarity with the English language?
 
surreptitious57 said:
The kiwi link references a claim that the champagne bottle was photoshopped. I take it to be genuine but I could be wrong. And I only
mentioned it in passing because those who mentioned it regarded the photo as real. Not a significant debating point for me personally
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It's important to at least try to run these sorts of claims down.

As a for instance, there's currently a claim that antifa was selling credit card knives "for slashing conservatives". Is it a hoax ? I can't tell
 
caveman1917 said:
What else did you expect? The forum is largely right-wing, a collection of liberals and conservatives who have historically been allied with fascists against the left[*], as well as American, so a deeper analysis than "good guys! good guys!" vs "bad guys! bad guys!" should not be expected.

* and still are, for example the government here in Belgium is made up of a coalition of liberals and fascists
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well, in the United States, the good guy team is made up of people who champion fundamental rights like Free Speech, Freedom of Assembly, and decry vigilante acts designed to suppress those rights, like the Black bloc anarchy scum, and the Anti-FirstAmendment cretins.
 
caveman1917 said:
What else did you expect? The forum is largely right-wing, a collection of liberals and conservatives who have historically been allied with fascists against the left[*], as well as American, so a deeper analysis than "good guys! good guys!" vs "bad guys! bad guys!" should not be expected.

* and still are, for example the government here in Belgium is made up of a coalition of liberals and fascists
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Have you ever considered writing for the Onion?
 
Eddie Dane said:
I thought you were referring to the free speech rally.
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No I was referring to the historical and current practice of liberals in allying with fascists against the left. Hence in a conflict between fascists and leftists it is expected to see liberals siding explicitly or implicitly with fascists.

Yeah NVA seems pretty right-winged.
But they're hardly going to gas French speakers, are they?
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Should they?
 
caveman1917 said:
No I was referring to the historical and current practice of liberals in allying with fascists against the left. Hence in a conflict between fascists and leftists it is expected to see liberals siding explicitly or implicitly with fascists.



Should they?
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As per my previous post it is possible to Hate both groups im doing it right now.
 
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