Ah. All psychics are in agreement as to who is legitimate, then?
Funny that. Allison Dubois is quite open in her acknowledgments that fakes exist. John Edward is, too.
How shall we choose the initial psychics to choose the other psychics?
I have an alternative proposal: Let anyone claiming to be a psychic and able to outline the conditions under which he can perform be allowed to test.
Unfortunately the controls aren't ideal in this sort of trial.
Obviously, since you haven’t outlined the trials yet. You've just mentioned an audience and a tv system.
I doubt it is possible to design the test in such a way, psychics and cold readers can perform as usual
Nonsense. Let me add something here that I’ve said in other threads but which no one wants to pick up on.
The term “cold reader†is too restrictive; I think it has become a sort of catch-all on this board for “cheating in any fashion.â€
But cold reading has a specific meaning.
My proposal is not that I can cold read to the same standard that the others performed.
My proposal is that I can provide results as accurate as they did using whatever means I want without getting caught. I am convinced that much of the stuff in the Schwartz test was cold reading, that some was warm, and that some was hot—bolstered by pre-test research.
Include my in a test but don’t think that I plan to stick to cold reading. I will cheat. And cheat a lot.
Beyond that, the assertion is patently untrue. The difficulty is not in designing a test; they would be fairly easy to design. The difficulty is in getting an allegedly genuine psychic or medium to definitively say:
1. What he can do
2. Under what conditions
3. To what degree of accuracy
Phase 1 readings. Psychics and cold readers do not see or hear recipients (cold readers guess at this point)
Phase 2 readings. Psychics and cold readers hears only recipients voice
Phase 3 readings. Psychics and cold readers sees and hears their recipient
Phase 4 readings. Recipients are given readings by cold readers and psychics to choose which they feel fits better. However before recipients receive readings, all too obvious or far too general statements are removed by 2 or more adjudicators who do not know whether the readings are from psychics or cold readers. These removed statements are then added back to overall message for the recipients to make another choice for separate analysis
Not bad controls, assuming the allegedly genuine psychics agree to them, but that’s the rub.
Have the psychics say what they can do and test them for that.
Let’s not test them for what Open Mind says they ought to be able to do. Were I, as a skeptic, to set the conditions prior to getting the psychic’s agreement, you’d rightly flay me.
btw: Phase 4 is, I think, perhaps the best of all and applicable to nearly any testing condition.
The main problem is to prevent cheating (hot reading), that unfortunately means psychics and cold readers cannot choose their recipient (as normal)
Why unfortunately?
John Edward and Sylvia Browne (allegedly) don’t choose their recipients on television. Montel does it for Sylvia. Spirits do it for JE.
because when the psychics win, I don't want csicop magicians to try wiggle their way out an embarrassing result for them
Not to say it never has or never could, but can you give an example of skeptics (which is what I expect you mean by csicop magicians unless you mean Randi personally) doing this?
Show me just one embarrassing result that made skeptics wriggle.
So far we’ve got lots of negative results that are truly negative and lots of positive results that whither when scrutinized.
I’ve already changed my world view massively at least once (from firm believer to non-believer). Won’t kill me to change it back.
Having read how much skeptics would love psi to exist and are just waiting for csicop magicians, etc. to give the thumbs up to it's existence, I'm sure all skeptics in here will be hoping and supporting the psychics to win the trial.
I’ll not make any decisions based on a thumbs up or down by anyone on this board, though I will seek out the comments of quite a few here.
Frankly, I really would love psi to exist. It would let me back into the folds of those who have cast me out since I stopped believing.
Interestingly, I suspect that few if any skeptic here would ostracize me – as believers have done – because I began to believe again.
One thing I found, Open Mind, upon casting aside my gullible beliefs, was that open minds are not truly found where I had thought, nor were they characterized by the behaviors I espoused. I have found too often on the side of the believers a tendency to substitute fear of self-reflection for open mindedness and to adopt a cloak of false civility and call it compassion.
I’ll take the harsh directness of skeptics, thank you, and recognize it as a token of respect and an invitation to join in a celebration of thought.
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Good!
