Moderated Thermite: Was it there or not?

[triforcharity]

PS. His office was on the 88th floor of the North Tower. Was he in the South Towr when he called the guys to the 78th floor where the impact had been ? Where the fireman said (on tape) ' a few isolated pockets of fire '...'We can knock them down with two lines '

Aparently you do not understand the amount of water that 2 lines can produce. I have posted this before, not sure where, but I might take the time to find it here in a few minutes. Its good. Its even got links.

BTW, you couldn't see the entire floor from one vantage point. Maybe only half. But, you forgot to mention the rest of that quote. Something about Multiple dead persons?? Remember that?? That tells something about the conditions on that floor.

 

[triforcharity]

My own theory was that the concrete floors were sprayed with nano-thermite. Concrete is porous and nano materials are small enough to enter the human cell let alone concrete. When ignited by remote the nano-thermite would almost instantly reach a temperature of up to 5,000 degrees centigrade, boiling whatever water residue was in he concrete and instantly pulverising it, melting the 80 acres of 20mm thick floorpans, and vapourising the 160 acres of rebar reinforcing almost none of which is found in he rubble pile.

....but the ceiling tiles are interesting too.

Problem #1- Radio controls don't work in a tower surrounded by aluminum. Many times has this been documented. I can tell you from experience, above floor 20 or so, no radio worked.

 

[Edx]

Problem #1- Radio controls don't work in a tower surrounded by aluminum. Many times has this been documented. I can tell you from experience, above floor 20 or so, no radio worked.

Out of interest, where was he when he (I forgot his name) said he could knock down the fires on floor 78 with "a couple of lines"?

 

[MIKILLINI]

Cleverly phrased but stupid as hell.

You're trying to make it sound odd that 10% of a building could destroy the other 90% - and to the morons in the TM it does sound odd, but only if you pretend that the top mass didn't strike the rest of the building floor-by-floor.

So the question you should be asking is: could the dynamic weight of the top sections (50,000 and 120,000 tons respectively) smash through each floor it encountered?

Yes it could. In a fraction of a second.

Repeatedly, this gets pointed out to them. Bill and his guru Heiwa are convinced the top section should have bounced or the collapse arrested by friction from each successive floor slowing it down until full stop after just a few floors.

They're more in static load evaluation, not dynamic.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Aparently you do not understand the amount of water that 2 lines can produce. I have posted this before, not sure where, but I might take the time to find it here in a few minutes. Its good. Its even got links.

I don't think this is what you were talking about, but another firefighter had worked it out:

Part of my paper, figured you guys might like this.

"Chief Palmer reports on the 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones, we've got isolated pockets of fire, we're gonna need at least two hand lines up there"

As most you know that the bulk of the fire was above the 78th floor and I won't get into much detail about that, Rather I am going to get into the stand pipe operations and why only two hand lines would have been needed to knock down the fire the 78th floor.

Most conspiracy theorists think two lines sounds like a small amount and therefore the fire was small right? Well not necessarily, two 2 1/2 inch hoses with 1 1/8th inch smooth bore nozzles can deliver more water at greater pressure than compared to the 1 1/2 inch unlined hoses that would have been stored on site, which anybody in the fire services knows, is usually crap since they don't meet the same requirements as hoses used by the fire department. As basic SOP during a high rise, they would have opened the gravity tanks located above them and turned on the fire pumps (which most likely would have been automatic) in addition to hooking two engines into an exterior outlet to add more pressure in the pipe, 650 psi to be exact. The nozzle pressure would have been reduced to 80-70 psi either by a PRD (Pressure Regulating Device) or at the stand pipe valve. Also the second line would have been hooked up at least two floors below the first line as not to interfere with residual pressure. So what does this all mean? Well if the stand pipe systems were still intact and operational they would have been able to deliver over 338 GPM (Gallons per minute)

GPM = (29.7)(d)^2(NP)

GPM = Gallons Per Minute
29.7 = Constant
d = Diameter in inches
NP = Nozzle Pressure

(29.7)(1.125)^2(80)(Use 81 for Square Root Purposes)
(29.7)(1.265)(9)
(37.5705, Rounded down to 37.57)(9)

GPM = 338

and at a weight of 8.33 pounds per gallon you are talking about over a ton of water with just one line alone. Now if you double that you are looking at over 2.5 tons of water.

To truly judge the fires Palmer saw, we must realize the following two things: He also asked for two "engines" (i.e. "Engine Companies"), and he was referring to isolated pockets on the lowest, least involved floors in the tower he was in. So those were the smallest that he saw, and he still requested two entire engine companies to the task.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Out of interest, where was he when he (I forgot his name) said he could knock down the fires on floor 78 with "a couple of lines"?

It was Chief Orio Palmer. He was documented to have been in the South Tower, and I think he was in a stairwell; someone who knows for certain can correct me on that.

 

[Skeptic]

Thermite is a mixture of iron oxide and aluminium. Steven Jones has found evidence that iron, aluminium and oxygen were present in dust from the WTC. Since the building was made of iron and aluminium and surrounded by oxygen, Jones's claim that these can only be from thermite is, not to put too fine a point on it, a bit shaky.

It was a secret atom bomb that brought down the towers.

Atoms were found in the wreckage, after all.

 

[LashL]

Chief Palmer was talking solely about a couple of isolated pockets of fire on the 78th floor of the south tower when he said that they should be able to knock down those isolated pockets with two lines. Years ago, I posted about the size of fires that could be 'knocked down with two lines' (they're huge in relative terms) and about what 'isolated pockets of fire' means in firefighter parlance - i.e. pockets of fire separate from the main (and larger) body of fire.

By the time that Chief Palmer reached the 78th floor, it was utterly devastated, and, as he reported, there were multiple dead people there (numerous 10-45 Code Ones) as a result of the fact that that particular floor had been the bottom of the impact zone of the aircraft and many, many people were killed as a result of the impact and the enormous fire that erupted instantaneously, not to mention that it was a skylobby floor. From his vantage point, he could only see a certain portion of the floor, of course, and there was probably not much left to burn (relatively speaking) in that area on 78 by the time that Chief Palmer noted those pockets of fire on that floor, as it had been pretty devastated already. Still, requiring two lines to knock down two isolated pockets of fire is a huge deal in normal circumstances, and was compounded tenfold by the fact that it was on the 78th floor of a building whose standpipes had been compromised and/or destroyed by the impact of a large airliner, and where much larger fires burned above.

What tinhatters do not mention is that Chief Palmer also noted the much larger body of fire above, and that he sent some of the firefighters who were there with him on 78 up to the 79th floor to investigate further, but then the tower collapsed.

The bottom line is that anyone who in 2009 still tosses out the stupid canard that there were no large fires raging in the building, and anyone who still quotes Chief Palmer's comment about the fires on the 78th floor in support of that ridiculous canard are either (a) deliberately dishonest; (b) completely delusional; (c) impervious to facts and evidence; or (d) indifferent to facts and evidence.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

It was a secret atom bomb that brought down the towers.

Atoms were found in the wreckage, after all.

Your kung fu is superior. I bow to you now.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Carlitos, read through the last couple pages in this thread and you'll find my 9/11 event synopsis.

Ah, the RedIbis gambit: Don't actually make any claims, but insist incessantly that you have. The next step, ImANiceGuy, is to start posting links to previous posts of yours that don't make any claim, while saying "I explained my claims in full in this post".

Dave

 

[Dave Rogers]

No it doesn't...that's the rub. No building in the entire history of this planet has ever been crushed down to the ground by one-tenth of itself as it was in the case of the North Tower on 9/11. Never, ever.

Except Bailey's Crossing.

Dave

 

[Dave Rogers]

My own theory was that the concrete floors were sprayed with nano-thermite. Concrete is porous and nano materials are small enough to enter the human cell let alone concrete. When ignited by remote the nano-thermite would almost instantly reach a temperature of up to 5,000 degrees centigrade, boiling whatever water residue was in he concrete and instantly pulverising it, melting the 80 acres of 20mm thick floorpans, and vapourising the 160 acres of rebar reinforcing almost none of which is found in he rubble pile.

Check your thermodynamics. Your scenario requires that the concrete contained more thermite than concrete.

Dave

 

[TruthersLie]

Carlitos, read through the last couple pages in this thread and you'll find my 9/11 event synopsis.

Trutherslie, I'm not as pathetic as Macky, I won't put you on ignore. However, you nonsensical ramblings are ineffective and frustrating. Macky insulted me several times by making absurd insinuations, and you deny this by calling me a child, despite the fact that I vigorously denied Thermite hypotheses.

You guys jumped all over me because you pre-determined that I was in favor of CD scenarios. How wrong some of you were(never to be admitted of course eh Macky?)

Edit: Alienentity, my questions followed the same linear form that a typical online 9/11 thermite debate would. I take exception to all the insults......why shouldn't I?

Oh poor widdle twoof.

No we jumped all over you because we KNEW you were a twoof from your second posting.

 

[Locknar]

Given the general and continued issues with this thread, it has been set to Moderated Status for now.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar

 

[TruthersLie]

Out of interest, where was he when he (I forgot his name) said he could knock down the fires on floor 78 with "a couple of lines"?

edx.

He was on the 78th floor at the bottom corner of the of the impact zone.

 

[aggle-rithm]

The plane impacted....there was local damage...some fires burned. Then over an hour later the building collapsed with the top one-tenth crushing the absolutely intact bottom nine-tenths down level with the ground...by gravity alone.

No way.

Some fires burned, you say.

Sounds like it wasn't very serious. Sounds like, if you were a person on one of the floors above the impact, you could easily escape the flames. Each floor had a huge amount of space to move around in, and you could always move to another floor if things got too hot.

So why did so many people prefer to jump to their deaths instead of simply moving away from these tiny little flames? Were they "in on it" too?


Think for a moment what it would take to make YOU throw yourself willingly off a 110 story building.

 

[bill smith]

Some fires burned, you say.

Sounds like it wasn't very serious. Sounds like, if you were a person on one of the floors above the impact, you could easily escape the flames. Each floor had a huge amount of space to move around in, and you could always move to another floor if things got too hot.

So why did so many people prefer to jump to their deaths instead of simply moving away from these tiny little flames? Were they "in on it" too?


Think for a moment what it would take to make YOU throw yourself willingly off a 110 story building.

I coulld easily argue that the flams were large while the jet fuel burned off and peope jumped to their deaths. A little later when the flames died down people were standing around and looking out of the hole.

But it doesn't really matter all that much. we know the area that had fire- we can see it on the videos. Even if those floors had burned like an inferno it doesn't change the dynmic of the top one-enth cushing the lower and stronger nine-tenths of the building down flat on the ground.

This has never happened to any buildng on this planet in the entire recorded history of the world. in fact no oblect, big or small has ever been crushed down flat on the ground by the top one-tenth of itself by gravity alone..

 

[triforcharity]

Out of interest, where was he when he (I forgot his name) said he could knock down the fires on floor 78 with "a couple of lines"?

This was before any building collapsed, and we had the repeater turned on. So, radios would work above that floor, but only on certain frequencies. There were some days when I went into that tower, and couldn't even get a radio signal above the 3rd floor before the repeater was turned on.

But, without that repeater, nothing worked. Especially low-voltage type transmitters.

 

[triforcharity]

Out of interest, where was he when he (I forgot his name) said he could knock down the fires on floor 78 with "a couple of lines"?

This was said before the tower collapsed. The repeater was on and working, so he might have been on the 78th floor. But, it might have been lower in the tower and he was just relaying a message. Who knows.

But, I can tell you, without that repeater turned on, there were no radio transmissions above about the 20th floor.

 

[triforcharity]

I don't think this is what you were talking about, but another firefighter had worked it out:


To truly judge the fires Palmer saw, we must realize the following two things: He also asked for two "engines" (i.e. "Engine Companies"), and he was referring to isolated pockets on the lowest, least involved floors in the tower he was in. So those were the smallest that he saw, and he still requested two entire engine companies to the task.

Nah, I did one that was a little easier to read, but I did the math, and 338 is correct. That is a TREMENDOUS amount of water.