arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Therapist says if you're an atheist you should lie to your kids about God.
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arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Yes, and then I contrasted it to the Roman Catholic Church. I'd still like to know whether the Roman Catholic Church considers Tertullian to still be an accurate representation of the current state of moral theology.
Because, you know. There are more members of the Roman Catholic Church than there are of all other Christian churches combined. So it'd be a useful thing to know. If the Roman Catholic Church doesn't consider Tertullian to be an accurate representation of the current state of moral theology, how many churches do, and what proportion of the Christian population does that represent?
Because you wouldn't want to draw broad-stroke generalisations about the whole of Christianity from a tiny minority of examples, would you? Let's make sure that the minority is at least not tiny.
It was you making the broad generalisation, to prove there are white crows one only has to show one white crow.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
I wasn't asking for a white crow, I was asking whether the Roman Catholic Church still considers Tertullian to be an accurate representation of modern moral theology, a question that I still have not had answered. Showing me that something that isn't the Roman Catholic Church does is irrelevant to my question.
Ulf Nereng
Muse
It's been a long time since I visited the Catholic Encyclopedia but I thought it might be interesting to see if it mentions Tertullian in relation to Hell. And it does, but only in passing. The passage on Hell can be found here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm
I found it interesting and disturbing.
I found it interesting and disturbing.
What a limited answer you want.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
To a limited question, yes. I assume that you do not have an answer to it.
Thor 2
Philosopher
Yes indeed!
An amazing amount written about a fictitious place. The Catholics have been working overtime on the subject of the destination of eternal souls after earthly death. Limbo (since shut down), purgatory, hell, and heaven. How to massage them into something more credible is the challenge.
Thor 2
Philosopher
Still waiting for your thesis about "current doctrine of morality" in the Catholic Church arth. Ulf has given us a link to some pertinent material ^.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Indeed, and now that I have had time to peruse it, I notice that it says absolutely nothing about Tertullian's suggestion that the righteous feel joy for witnessing the torment of sinners.
Therefore I will conclude that Tertullian's passage does not represent the contemporary moral theology of a majority of Christians - specifically, Roman Catholics. It is possible, even probable, that there are smaller churches which do still hold this theological perspective, but they do not represent a majority of Christians.
Thank you for your patience.
And you & I & all of Goddamn's children know that for a lot of chrrrrristians part of heaven's joys is still being able to gloat over the frying of the sinners next door (and a little downslope) in hell. 'Twas ever thus, and why do you hate human nature?
Thor 2
Philosopher
Non the less Tertullian has been called "the father of Latin Christianity". (ie The RCC.) and although he didn't get to be a saint (because of squabbles with others about "subordination of the Son and Spirit to the Father" and other heady stuff) it would be reasonable to assume his ideas would have some weight.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Sure, but Tertullian wrote a whole lot of stuff in addition to the short excerpt you posted. Should every word carry equal weight?
Thor 2
Philosopher
Now did I say that?
You are the one implying that some things written by Tertullian may not be part of the "current doctrine of morality", and I am giving weight to the argument that his ideas are respected by many of the faithful. Don't know how to weigh each idea for comparison with each other ...... you?
Ulf Nereng
Muse
You are of course correct in saying that modern Catholics don't subscribe to Tertullians suggestion. Dawkins wrote something about the changing "Zeitgeist", as I recall. Modern catholics probably don't condone slavery either, along with a number of other practises they did endorse in the past. Scripture hasn't changed, but our notions of what is moral has changed quite a lot. And so theology had to change as well, in order to not appear grotesque to modern people.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Exactly.
Hellbound
Merchant of Doom
Does kinda put paid to the idea that morality comes from God, especially with all those “the will of the Lord never changes” verses.
In fact it was that dichotomy that first got me started looking at the Bible with a skeptical view.
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In fact it was that dichotomy that first got me started looking at the Bible with a skeptical view.
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Thor 2
Philosopher
I agree that modern Catholics and Christians generally are decidedly more moral than they were. This, in spite of explicit instruction in scripture, to do all manner of horrendous deeds.
The drooling over the prospect of the hateful, writhing in Hell for eternity, persists for many I suspect. There may be some who profess to "love the sinner - hate the sin", but I wonder at the sincerity of this sentiment in many Christians.
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Thor 2
Philosopher
Returning to the theme of this thread. I occurs to me that other religions, such as Buddhism, do not have a belief in a god.
Having lived in a Buddhist country for many years I did not observe or hear of, childhood trauma as common.
Having lived in a Buddhist country for many years I did not observe or hear of, childhood trauma as common.