Merged Their Return

King of the Americas said:
Waterman said:
Interssting that you are invoking a religious imagery to show that we are not religious. I think that if THEY do exist that they are will aware of what is happening. They can follow the news as well as anyone else, as long at PTL and Al-jazra (sp) broad cast their particualr mode of religious fever to wide audiences and that there are actual leagal arguemnts over things such as 'Creation Science" instead of being laughed our of the court room. We as a society need to promote critical thinking and objective analysis of the data and avoid manufacturing causes where there is none.
Click to expand...

Okay, but the question remains how does a less advanced earthbound society make known to those flying above that they want to make contact?

Be they the tribesmen and our airplanes, or be it modern society and whatever is flying above us...?
Click to expand...

Ah but that is a different question than the other one posed. “How do we get them to come down?” To answer this question “How do we let them know we want to make contact?” we are already doing it. The Voyager probe is well documented and contains just that sort of invitation. In my opinion, if there is an advanced civilization in observation they would be tuned into our broadcast media and would be well aware of our level of development.

It is my sense that IF they are there then we will not see them until they deem it advantageous for us or them. I doubt that they are going to stand on ceremony nor be fooled by an appeal to religious imagery. Even if you were to get 50% of the world to look sky ward, 1 how would they know, other than by some sort of physic phenomenon 2 if this is the case wouldn’t they interpret that appeal to not be directed at them but to a variety of religious deity figures?

I am all for playing the 'What IF' game but if you want to make this actionable as you seem to be doing you are going to have to some up with more than ‘well lets just see if that works…’
 
BTMO said:
They use something like SETI.

Looking up in unison is a silly idea. Sending an invitation the Olympics is as silly as inviting them (or Madonna) to the up-coming royal wedding in the UK.

...
Click to expand...

How would the 'tribe' make it known to the guys in the L.W.B., that they wanted them to descend, if not to gather in mass, and try to wave them down?

The Olympic Opening Ceremonies are watched by the most diverse TV audience the world over. I don't know of another venue that could or would draw the world's attention like this event.

This said, I predict that there will be a U.F.O. sighting at or near the royal wedding. I say this, only because it has happened before...historically speaking. 'They' tend to be drawn to big occasions.
 
Waterman said:
Ah but that is a different question than the other one posed. “How do we get them to come down?” To answer this question “How do we let them know we want to make contact?” we are already doing it. The Voyager probe is well documented and contains just that sort of invitation. In my opinion, if there is an advanced civilization in observation they would be tuned into our broadcast media and would be well aware of our level of development.

...
Click to expand...

The problem, "as I see it", is that those efforts don't speak for Humanity...

If ONE tribesman made a wooden glider, embossed with a bunch of writing, and managed to throw it into the passing plane window, by an amazing feat of luck...'he' doesn't represent the whole village...right?
 
King of the Americas said:
The problem, "as I see it", is that those efforts don't speak for Humanity...

If ONE tribesman made a wooden glider, embossed with a bunch of writing, and managed to throw it into the passing plane window, by an amazing feat of luck...'he' doesn't represent the whole village...right?
Click to expand...

And yet that 'one' 'tribesman' has 'gotten' the alien's 'gods' 'attention', right?
 
King of the Americas said:
Attention and descending are 'different'...
Click to expand...

But if all the anecdotes are true, it doesn't take a majority to get 'them' to descend. It seems more likely 'they' would descend when someone is alone, if the anecdotes are to be believed. I don't recall an anecdote about half the world's population being required to get 'them' to descend.

Seems like one farmer in a field in Kansas throwing a virtual wooden glider at 'their' window would do it.
 
King of the Americas said:
How would the 'tribe' make it known to the guys in the L.W.B., that they wanted them to descend, if not to gather in mass, and try to wave them down?

The Olympic Opening Ceremonies are watched by the most diverse TV audience the world over. I don't know of another venue that could or would draw the world's attention like this event.

This said, I predict that there will be a U.F.O. sighting at or near the royal wedding. I say this, only because it has happened before...historically speaking. 'They' tend to be drawn to big occasions.
Click to expand...

The tribe in the jungle is in a different position. The planes fly over, and they are easily spotted. They're loud, they look like airplanes every time, you can hear them coming, see them fly by, and hear them leaving. Nobody needs to convince anybody that they are real. As we see from the pictures taken, at least some people gather and look up.

The planes that took those pictures flew far to high for anyone to throw anything into one, but it seems likely that if enough people gathered at the approach of a plane and made welcoming, beckoning gestures, they would get their message across. Aside from that, you are probably selling these tribesmen short in assuming that they are so totally mystified by the planes that they have no idea where they come from, and no idea that they are connected with the people whom they know full well they would encounter if they simply walked out of the jungle to make contact. Their isolation is intentional.

UFO's on the other hand are scarce, unpredictable and notoriously hard to identify, hence the name. If your surmise about their origin is true, then we know that they once knew perfectly well how to make contact, and if they do not do so now, it's their choice and nothing we do can be expected to change that. If UFO's tend to visit big events, then your problem should solve itself. Many people will see them, agree on what they saw, and you can proceed from there to sell your idea on contact. Until then, it's all fantasy.
 
RoboTimbo said:
But if all the anecdotes are true, it doesn't take a majority to get 'them' to descend. It seems more likely 'they' would descend when someone is alone, if the anecdotes are to be believed. I don't recall an anecdote about half the world's population being required to get 'them' to descend.

Seems like one farmer in a field in Kansas throwing a virtual wooden glider at 'their' window would do it.
Click to expand...

They have and they DO make individual contact, for any number of reasons, but they haven't made themselves known to everyone...

That ONE tribesman keeps returning to wave as the L.W.B. flies by, wouldn't mean the tribe itself was interested.
 
King of the Americas said:
And here we have the last resort of the skeptic, "I don't BELIEVE you."

And that is really the basis for all skepticism, people, photographs, videos, historical denotations are "not to be believed"...

And so while I CAN be skeptical about some things, I am most certainly not a skeptic.

I believable the believable.

Rather than claim that ALL the videos and photographs are fake, that expert witnesses hallucinated or saw something they didn't, that the whole of human religion and mythology is pure fiction, and that 'I' myself had a one-time break with reality and imagined, 'with a friend', seeing star-like objects perform feats beyond that of conventional aircraft...

Rather than discount ALL of that.

I think the simplest answer here, is that we misinterpreted history.
Click to expand...

Actually, when we're talking about parsimony, the simplest answer is the one with the fewest number of unknown entities, or as it is sometimes put, the fewest number of baseless assumptions.

The claim that all the videos and photographs are fake assumes that people sometimes fake videos and photographs. That is a valid assumption. The claim that expert witnesses hallucinated or saw something they didn't (misinterpreted what they saw), assumes that people sometimes hallucinate and misinterpret what they see. People indeed do this. The claim that all religion and mythology is fictional relies on the assumption that religion and mythology is sometimes fictional. It is.

However, your claim, that there are unseen gods in the sky that will come to Earth if we ask them, relies on the assumption that these unseen gods actually exist. This assumption is baseless. The gods are unknown entities, and automatically make the claim unparsimonious.

ETA: I have avoided addressing all the strawmen in your post. Can you spot them?
 
Last edited:
If the anecdotes are all true, they made themselves known to a whole bunch of tribesmen and a priest in Bosinai, Papas New Guinea 50 years ago. No "looking up" or signaling required.



What's most odd is that, the better our technology gets, the less these guys appear. I think that return to the stone age was the best suggestion yet. Then we'll have Ezekiel's Wheel and help carving stones again. That was clearly the nadir of our civilization.
 
King of the Americas said:
They have and they DO make individual contact,
Click to expand...

How do you know?

for any number of reasons,
Click to expand...

How do you know?

but they haven't made themselves known to everyone...
Click to expand...

Can you name the people they have made themselves known to?

That ONE tribesman keeps returning to wave as the L.W.B. flies by, wouldn't mean the tribe itself was interested.
Click to expand...

Yeah, who would be interested in pausing for a moment in their humdrum, repetitive, and difficult lifestyles to take a look at something spectacular? Not me.
 
Where does this idea that the aliens are waiting for an official invitation of some sort come from?

If they're aware of us and care enough to acknowledge us, they'd most likely want to learn something about us. How could they resist doing so with all our media laying about to be observed? And then there's the internet, the perfect vehicle for interaction with a species without the dangers of physical contact. If there are aliens interested in us and able to interact in our context of behavior and reality, what better place to do so without alerting anyone to their presence?

Its abundantly clear we're fascinated by the prospect already by our media. I think these advanced entities would be able to not only tell the difference between our fiction and non fiction, but also surmise our interest in being contacted.

Expecting us to call out to them in some mass gathering founded on faith alone in some scattered anecdotes is as ridiculous as the Christian God expecting us to believe in him and give ten percent of our wealth every Sunday based on nothing but suspicious anecdotes.
 
King of the Americas said:
They have and they DO make individual contact, for any number of reasons, but they haven't made themselves known to everyone...

That ONE tribesman keeps returning to wave as the L.W.B. flies by, wouldn't mean the tribe itself was interested.
Click to expand...
So, if they have made individual contact, they obviously know how to make contact. If what you say is true they already know how to make contact, and unless they're utter idiots they can figure out a way to tell people what they do or do not want. If they can't or won't then we should rethink the wisdom of initiating contact ourselves. You can't have this both ways. If they make contact already then they are making contact already. If they want to make themselves known to everyone, they must surely be capable of that. All they'd have to do is come to a point where more people see them, stay long enough to be noticed, and let someone finally, after all these years, break the curse that plagues all UFO and monster sightings - the inability of anyone in the vicinity to use a proper camera and get a clear shot. A couple of instances of that, and enough people will be convinced. Until they do that one simple thing your job, which is to be that one tribesman trying to sell your viewpoint to the majority, will be impossible. You'll just never do it. No matter how real your visions are, they're yours alone until the UFOnians change their ways.

In short, you're sunk. It doesn't matter whether or not you're a great visionary or a loony. You'll never make your sale until the UFOnians help you out.
 
bruto said:
The tribe in the jungle is in a different position. The planes fly over, and they are easily spotted. They're loud, they look like airplanes every time, you can hear them coming, see them fly by, and hear them leaving. Nobody needs to convince anybody that they are real. As we see from the pictures taken, at least some people gather and look up.

The planes that took those pictures flew far to high for anyone to throw anything into one, but it seems likely that if enough people gathered at the approach of a plane and made welcoming, beckoning gestures, they would get their message across. Aside from that, you are probably selling these tribesmen short in assuming that they are so totally mystified by the planes that they have no idea where they come from, and no idea that they are connected with the people whom they know full well they would encounter if they simply walked out of the jungle to make contact. Their isolation is intentional.

UFO's on the other hand are scarce, unpredictable and notoriously hard to identify, hence the name. If your surmise about their origin is true, then we know that they once knew perfectly well how to make contact, and if they do not do so now, it's their choice and nothing we do can be expected to change that. If UFO's tend to visit big events, then your problem should solve itself. Many people will see them, agree on what they saw, and you can proceed from there to sell your idea on contact. Until then, it's all fantasy.
Click to expand...

Ah, but they don't really fly close enough for them to get a good look. This is deep dark jungle, and they videographers use telephoto lens to capture what they did.

We DON'T KNOW what the tribesmen know or don't know about the L.W.B.'s... As they 'might' know about other tribes or other humans, they DON'T know exactly what and who is in the L.W.B.'s...

I don't think this is fantasy at all.
 
aggle-rithm said:
...

The claim that all the videos and photographs are fake assumes that people sometimes fake videos and photographs. That is a valid assumption. The claim that expert witnesses hallucinated or saw something they didn't (misinterpreted what they saw), assumes that people sometimes hallucinate and misinterpret what they see. People indeed do this. The claim that all religion and mythology is fictional relies on the assumption that religion and mythology is sometimes fictional. It is.

...
Click to expand...

REQUIRING that:

-ALL the videos and photographs are fake

-ALL the expert witnesses hallucinated or misidentifies common or mundane things

-ALL religious and historical notations of heavenly agents are 'fiction'

is more complicated are requires ignoring more evidence that accepting...

That 'they' are really just more advanced technological beings, and not "God" at all.

It is more simple to say that we've just misinterpreted history and religion.
 
aggle-rithm said:
How do you know?



How do you know?



Can you name the people they have made themselves known to?



Yeah, who would be interested in pausing for a moment in their humdrum, repetitive, and difficult lifestyles to take a look at something spectacular? Not me.
Click to expand...

Because "Travis Walton" passed a lie detector test...

The other tribesmen DON'T BELIEVE the guy who HAS seen them...
 
What you believe is irrelevant.

The fact is that you don't have a clue about what tha Amazon jungle actually is and what,s going on there. If you had, you would not have used that tribe as an analogy for your fantasy.
Note that people have already pointed to the real life issues of that interpretation of yours.
As always, you ignored, since its against your beliefs.

I have seen and experienced things you hadn't. I am your timely truth. You are wrong.
 
King of the Americas said:
Waterman said:
Ah but that is a different question than the other one posed. “How do we get them to come down?” To answer this question “How do we let them know we want to make contact?” we are already doing it. The Voyager probe is well documented and contains just that sort of invitation. In my opinion, if there is an advanced civilization in observation they would be tuned into our broadcast media and would be well aware of our level of development.

...
Click to expand...

The problem, "as I see it", is that those efforts don't speak for Humanity...

If ONE tribesman made a wooden glider, embossed with a bunch of writing, and managed to throw it into the passing plane window, by an amazing feat of luck...'he' doesn't represent the whole village...right?
Click to expand...

Hmmm… you completely dismissed a significant portion of my post and ignored previous concerns about any attempt to gather the magic 50% with 1/3 of the globe in normal sleep time, 1/3 of globe at day jobs, tape delays and getting the population to go outside and look up INSTEAD of watching the spectacular that is supposed to be the opening ceremonies. Then further more how would THEY know that we were looking and that the intent was meant as an invitation? (Of course this is built on the assumption that they actually exist, are watching, have the means to detect what we mean and care what we think. Just want to make that clear.)

The problem as I see it is that your metaphore breaks down.

For the unknown tribe there is no exchange of information to the outside world regarding who they are and what they think. All we have is one guy waving. The pilot has no idea what he is thinking, what he is telling his friends and what he is planning to do with the knowledge. The major difference here is that as a society we emit our opinions, plan and thoughts to the universe through various media. If they chose to they could land in any rural area and obtain significant amounts of data by picking up the local news papers to assess what people are thinking and doing.

If we had the ability to sneak into village, kidnap the local farmer and copy all their literature and lore and take it back of study, then return him home several days later after wiping his memory we would probably do that. Especially if we were concerned that the village would turn in on itself once we were known. We would interpret the writings listen to the songs, study the lore. That would tell us the best mode of approaching the undiscovered tribe and give us a good handle on how they might respond. But that would only be because we are both humans and have a good idea of the basic psychology.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom