Merged Their Return

[I Ratant]

So would you say The Blue Angels are the gods, or is it The Thunderbirds?

.
Having worked with the top test pilots in the US Navy and the US Air Force, I'd vote for the Blues as best.
Both services have incredibly gifted fliers.. the Navy just pushes them further.

 

[carlitos]

Just because you WROTE "gods", doesn't mean the inflection wasn't of God, in your example.

Hmm... Now you're guessing my inflection? I use italics to add that, as I did in editing your post above.

When you ignore what your opponent actually says, and just make up your own strawman to attack, there can be no discussion at all...

What the ancients saw and wrote of THEY thought were "of God". This may be true in a holistic sense, in that we are all part of this ever expanding Big Bang of a singularity, but just because you are way better than me at something, doesn't mean I should worship you.

No, but when you 'look up,' do you expect me to appear?

What the ancients saw was just better technologies at work, not "God" at all. They called them that, angels, demons, or any number of other things including "god". But NONE of these terms phrases or ideas is any more accurate than the next, because THEY AREN'T HERE.

'They' are 'up there'... We are down here... So, none of any really knows what or who they are.

Or that they exist at all. Despite you seeing some lights in the sky one time.

 

[GeeMack]

Remind me what the premise of your OP was again?

I think I can answer that. It was a dishonest troll about some game of just-pretend designed as a lead-in to pursuing an agenda. The agenda was to rally support for a petition drive to get the Olympics committee to help recruit the population of the world to call in the aliens.

Oddly enough the OP, having established right from the start that he/she wasn't interested in an honest discussion of anything, is now accusing other participants of being dishonest. Where's that pot/kettle icon?

 

[GeeMack]

.
Having worked with the top test pilots in the US Navy and the US Air Force, I'd vote for the Blues as best.
Both services have incredibly gifted fliers.. the Navy just pushes them further.

They're gods I tell you. Gods!

 

[King of the Americas]

Hmm... Now you're guessing my inflection? I use italics to add that, as I did in editing your post above.

No, but when you 'look up,' do you expect me to appear?


Or that they exist at all. Despite you seeing some lights in the sky one time.

I didn't see "lights". I saw "star-like objects"...

Stop mis-representing my statements.

 

[BTMO]

I didn't see "lights". I saw "star-like objects"...

Stop mis-representing my statements.

Quick challenge - describe a star.

And just for fun, do so without using the word "light" or any of its synonyms...

 

[King of the Americas]

Quick challenge - describe a star.

And just for fun, do so without using the word "light" or any of its synonyms...

"Lights" are stable fixtures emitting a constant beam of light.

What I saw "oscillated" or twinkled like a star.

They were not 'just lights'...

 

[Correa Neto]

What I find exceedingly interesting AND SAD is the almost total lack of serious responses to ANY of my arguments.

...snip...

Funny... I posted several serious responses to your arguments. Some of them contained a number of evidence pieces which we could expect to be present if some of your especulations, ideas, fantasies, etc. were correct. Others showed why some of your especulations, ideas, fantasies, etc. are wrong.

No serious reply. Most were ignored, some received as reply a lame attempt to evade, to circle the problem. A certain one received a statement which I think, using your own words, is the very definition of intellectual dishonesty -
"I AM THE TRUTH".

 

[carlitos]

Hmm... Now you're guessing my inflection? I use italics to add that, as I did in editing your post above.

No, but when you 'look up,' do you expect me to appear?


Or that they exist at all. Despite you seeing some lights in the sky one time.

I didn't see "lights". I saw "star-like objects"...

Stop mis-representing my statements.

You did see lights, but you didn't see "just lights," right?

"Lights" are stable fixtures emitting a constant beam of light.

What I saw "oscillated" or twinkled like a star.

They were not 'just lights'...

Please take your own advice. I didn't say "just lights" either. Oscillating red / blue lights are a subset of "lights." I continue to use the terms you have introduced here and you continue to pretend I'm not using your terms. That's dishonest and I wish you would stop it.

When you ignore what your opponent actually says, and just make up your own strawman to attack, there can be no discussion at all...

I posted a video of red and blue oscillating cop lights, and you watched it and commented on it. Those too were "some lights," that were recently incorporated into your confabulated UFO anecdote.


ETA - my bolding. Since when is light not an object? Those are your words.

2003:
Originally Posted by king of the americas
i said it was true because i saw star-like objects(6), emitting a visible light, move with a constant velocity and make right-angle turns, and move in cordination with one another, and at one point disobey the laws of physics. And i have seen more than one other example of this event in a video recording, that couldn't be identified with any terresterial craft. And that this same 'theme' is present in every form of media throughout the ages...is what leads me to this 'finding'.
Originally Posted by king of the americas30th october 2003, 09:09 am

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken
You said star like objects.. now it's star like lights. Which is it?

since when is a light not an object? This was at night, there were a half a dozen of them, and they performed tasks that no terresterial pilot could. Moreover, their ability to disobey the laws of physics, as i understand them led me to this unearthly conclusion.

 

[BTMO]

"Lights" are stable fixtures emitting a constant beam of light.

What I saw "oscillated" or twinkled like a star.

They were not 'just lights'...

Wrong on several points. And you failed the challenge.

 

[carlitos]

Star-like object light, Star-like object bright
The first star-like object I see tonight;
I wish I may, I wish I might,
Have the wish I wish tonight.

​

 

[tsig]

What I find exceedingly interesting AND SAD is the almost total lack of serious responses to ANY of my arguments.

Worse was the daily mis-statements or outright lies about my actual stance.

This exchange has been anything but an honest straight forward discussion put forward by my OP.

When ridicule and mockery take the place of critical thinking based skepticism, debate itself suffers.

When you ignore what your opponent actually says, and just make up your own strawman to attack, there can be no discussion at all...

I have repeatedly said, "I do not believe in aliens.", yet you'll find the term constantly attributed to my beliefs from MOST of self-proclaimed skeptics here, is the very definition of intellectual dishonesty.

Masquerading blatant ignorance, ridicule, and mockery as skepticism hurts or otherwise hinders everyone's search for truth.

And I think THAT is really the point or goal of skeptics here, to derail any and all efforts to find out the truth behind U.F.O.'s and their connection between history's- "god(s) of the heavens".

This place, JREF, is NOT the bastion of intellectualism it once was...

Yeah it's not the bastion of intellectualism it never was.

 

[Yeah_Right]

KotA, the simple fact is that no one knows what those oscillating lights were, so rather than assume they were heavenly agents, why don't you say, you don't know what they were? That would, at least, be a little more intellectually honest.

 

[King of the Americas]

You did see lights, but you didn't see "just lights," right?

...

ETA - my bolding. Since when is light not an object? Those are your words.

Light, in and of itself, is not an object. If we are being literal, and defining the moo poo out of everything. Objects can emit light...fire, or the emission of energy, emits light...

I saw no bulb, thruster vents, or flashlight handle behind or within the "oscillating red, white, and blue star-like objects." There was no thruster burst, or change in the magnitude of the objects when they moved.

The REALLY unusual thing that occurred when 2 objects joined together, and made an object that was 4-fold larger...

So it is incorrect, inaccurate, and NOT a full description of my experience to say, "You saw some lights, and now you believe in aliens."

Please stop mis-representing my experience and my conclusion.

 

[carlitos]

Light, in and of itself, is not an object.

Since when is a light not an object?

gods / God, lights / objects. Your dishonesty is here for all to see. Feel free to posit a real, falsifiable, testable hypothesis and prove me wrong.

BTW, it's cute that you put your latest version of the fantasy story in quotes, like you're quoting someone. Blue, red and white oscillating lights are a confabulation of yours.

ETA - the bits about the bulb and thruster vents are cute. Nice fantasy, bro.

 

[King of the Americas]

Funny... I posted several serious responses to your arguments. Some of them contained a number of evidence pieces which we could expect to be present if some of your especulations, ideas, fantasies, etc. were correct. Others showed why some of your especulations, ideas, fantasies, etc. are wrong.

No serious reply. Most were ignored, some received as reply a lame attempt to evade, to circle the problem. A certain one received a statement which I think, using your own words, is the very definition of intellectual dishonesty -
"I AM THE TRUTH".

Are you the truth, or are you saying that I said that? Because I don't recall saying that...

So, what IS your 'serious' retort? How does an indigenous tribe get the sky gods to descend?

Wouldn't it make sense to bring out the whole tribe, when the L.W.B. is expected to show up?

How would a single scout from the tribe convince the others in the tribe, that there even was a L.W.B.??

What do YOU think is behind actual U.F.O. sightings? Say if 90% ARE mis-identifications of light bouncing off of swamp gas, blimps, balloons, or military craft of some kind. The remaining 10%, what is it, or what are they? Is there ANY chance whatsoever, that it could be E.T.'s...?

Why is "E.T.'s" the least likely conclusion...?

 

[King of the Americas]

gods / God, lights / objects. Your dishonesty is here for all to see. Feel free to posit a real, falsifiable, testable hypothesis and prove me wrong.

BTW, it's cute that you put your latest version of the fantasy story in quotes, like you're quoting someone. Blue, red and white oscillating lights are a confabulation of yours.

ETA - the bits about the bulb and thruster vents are cute. Nice fantasy, bro.

I meant in the second one, that light is evidence of an object emitting it...

Enough with the semantics already.

 

[carlitos]

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”




It's completely accurate to say that you remember a story where you think you saw some lights, and now you believe in gods of the heavens. Tough **** if you don't like it.

Again, feel free to state a testable, falsifiable hypothesis and then we can discuss this honestly, instead of you holding court with your little fairy tale. Coward.

 

[King of the Americas]

...

It's completely accurate to say that you remember a story where you think you saw some lights, and now you believe in gods of the heavens. Tough **** if you don't like it.

Again, feel free to state a testable, falsifiable hypothesis and then we can discuss this honestly, instead of you holding court with your little fairy tale. Coward.

It was not "lights" alone that led me to believe in gods of the heavens... History itself led me to that belief, seeing "objects" perform inhuman flight patterns & meld together others confirmed that there is indeed something up there, better than us.

AGAIN, I wouldn't know the first place to start in regards to creating a falsifiable hypothesis.

How would I go about doing so?

 

[carlitos]

Why not look at the wikipedia entry for a start:

An hypothesis (from Greek ὑπόθεσις; plural hypotheses) is a proposed explanation for an observable phenomenon. The term derives from the Greek, ὑποτιθέναι – hypotithenai meaning "to put under" or "to suppose." For a hypothesis to be put forward as a scientific hypothesis, the scientific method requires that one can test it. Scientists generally base scientific hypotheses on previous observations that cannot satisfactorily be explained with the available scientific theories. Even though the words "hypothesis" and "theory" are often used synonymously in common and informal usage, a scientific hypothesis is not the same as a scientific theory. A working hypothesis is a provisionally accepted hypothesis.

So, what's your hypothesis for your sighting? State a hypothesis, and members here can work on improving it, making it testable and falsifiable.