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Their brothers the Arabs.

ZN:
"Demon subscribes to the tired old Israeli "land-grab" and "apartheid" propoganda..."

What`s exactly "tired" about it?
That`s ironic coming from a follower of the Mycroft school of can`t even say where the demand for a Greater Israel ends.
You are a King David man though aren`t you? Don`t by shy about it!
 
We do not discuss the fence here, could you please stop derailing the topic? Both of you!!!!!
 
ZN ....why this constant reminding of people that this wall can be bargained away? What deal does Sharon want for it? You claim it is to prevent terrorist attacks so I don't imagine it will be pulled down if attacks stop. That would be a bit silly. Maybe it will be pulled down once the territory it has grabbed is annexed? Or once the viability of a sustainable palestinian homeland on the west bank is permanantly eliminated by the expanding web of walls, settlements, outposts and controlled roads.


Anyone who thinks there is any similarity between these two walls should ask themselves if the american wall snakes into Mexico to nearly surround mexican towns or protect American outposts built in mexico....is that what it does? I think it is built on the American border. Is that the case?
 
The topic is NOT about the fence. Do NOT try to change subject. Our subject is the hypocricy of the Arab world towards the Palestinians.

Are we in the kindergarden to chase you around the forum to keep on topic?

Zenith-Nadir transfer this discussion to one of the numerous threads about the fence, you cannot continue this discussion here. I expected from some people to attempt to derail the topic for obvious reasons but not from you.
 
Cleopatra said:
We do not discuss the fence here, could you please stop derailing the topic? Both of you!!!!!


Earthborne brought up the fence, then epepke spoke about the American fence, then I showed some pictures of both fences.

And since your participation ended in this thread on March 19th I didn't realize you were still "in control" of the thread. I return the thread to your "control".

Bye bye...
 
What`s exactly "tired" about it?

Here's a hint, "demon": israel, the "racist apartheid state" in your view, only decided to build such a fence after hundreds of its citizens were killed by suicide bombers.

If there were no suicide bombers, there would be no fence. The claim that its purpose is "apartheid" is a deliberate lie--a rich one, too, coming from the likes of Saudi Arabia and Jordan, who explicitly forbid the jews to enter or become citizens of their contries, by law.

You call this "apartheid" for a very simple reason: you want suicide bombers to continue to kill as many israelies as possible.

That`s ironic coming from a follower of the Mycroft school of can`t even say where the demand for a Greater Israel ends.

It is, however, rather easy to say where the demands of "greater Palestine" end: throwing the jews into the sea (see the palestinian charter, Arafat's speeches, religious sermons, children's school books, etc., etc., etc.)

Obviously, it's perfectly all right for the Palestinians to pursue a genocidal course aiming at a second holocaust, but it is "apartheid" for israel to defend itself.

It's "tired proganda", in other words, because--using the usual "big lie" technique--you consider genocidal murder of jews part of the "legitimate rights of the palestinian people", while jews defending themselves is "apartheid".
 
Cleopatra:
"Our subject is the hypocricy of the Arab world towards the Palestinians."

That would be the "alleged" hypocrisy.
A definite hypocrisy is to cause a refugee problem and then to criticise others for not taking responsibility for solving it.
Bit early for an April Fools Day joke Cleo.
 
a_unique_person said:
Perhaps you miss the most obvious reason for rejecting the Palestinians as refugees, no one can absord millions of dissatisfied people. I don't see any other countries lining up around the world welcoming them. Why just blame the arab states for not wanting to be a part of the solution. The fact is, most of the arab world has just given up on achieving a palestinian solution, and just wishes the problem would go away, like the rest of the world.
Neither the Arabs nor the rest of the world want the Middle East problem, they want it to get worse. They want to use the Palanstine to finish the job the Nazia did not. The only thing stoping the finil soulition from being finial is the United States.
 
Cleopatra said:
Our subject is the hypocricy of the Arab world towards the Palestinians.
I thought the topic was that Israelis are more likely to care for Palestininians than Arabs outside of Israel-Palestine.

But if you say that this shows that this is hypocracy, I can't agree with you. It's only hypocracy if they if they do something different than they say. Hypocracy is an accusation, and you need to back it up: not only do you have to prove that Arabs are less likely to care for Palestinians, you'll also have to show that they pretend to care for them more. That King of Jordan doesn't seem to hide his lack of care, so his view is not hypocritical.

I think there is a difference between telling about an impression and when you make a direct accusation: an accusation is something you need to back up, an impression is just an opinion you have of something that may appear true to others or not.

I disagree that Arab views are often hypocritical, and I certainly don't equate the views of their governments with the views of the Arabic common people. Ordinary citizens probably care about Palestinians quite a bit, but have their own trouble that is more important to them: no hypocracy. Their governments are not hypocritical because they never pretended to care much for Palestinians. They only cared even less for (Jewish) Israelis.
 
Earthborn said:
I thought the topic was that Israelis are more likely to care for Palestininians than Arabs outside of Israel-Palestine.

But if you say that this shows that this is hypocracy, I can't agree with you. It's only hypocracy if they if they do something different than they say. Hypocracy is an accusation, and you need to back it up: not only do you have to prove that Arabs are less likely to care for Palestinians, you'll also have to show that they pretend to care for them more. That King of Jordan doesn't seem to hide his lack of care, so his view is not hypocritical.

I think there is a difference between telling about an impression and when you make a direct accusation: an accusation is something you need to back up, an impression is just an opinion you have of something that may appear true to others or not.

I disagree that Arab views are often hypocritical, and I certainly don't equate the views of their governments with the views of the Arabic common people. Ordinary citizens probably care about Palestinians quite a bit, but have their own trouble that is more important to them: no hypocracy. Their governments are not hypocritical because they never pretended to care much for Palestinians. They only cared even less for (Jewish) Israelis.
It seems you may be right about the ordinary citizens.
Does this mood represent an unjustified concern by Arab leaders who are out of touch with the public? To get a rare view of Arab public opinion, I commissioned a survey (through Zogby International) in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Lebanon. The results indicate that Arab leaders may even be underestimating public opinion on this issue.

In each of four countries surveyed, about 60 percent of the public reported that the Palestinian issue "is the single most important issue" to them personally, and more than 20 percent more ranked it "among the top three most important issues." Remarkably, this is true even of public opinion in Kuwait, which has had a troubled relationship with the Palestinians since the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990. In all, about 85 percent of people in the five states ranked the Palestinian issue among the top three issues.

The results from the fifth state, Egypt, were even more impressive: Seventy-nine percent of Egyptians said that the Palestinian issue is "the single most important issue" to them personally.
Sympathy for the Palestinians
 
In 200 years, the palestinians will have Casino's and High Stakes Bingo .. so I'm not exatly sure what you all are so upset about.
 
Skeptic:
"What`s exactly "tired" about it?

Here's a hint, "demon": israel, the "racist apartheid state" in your view, only decided to build such a fence after hundreds of its citizens were killed by suicide bombers.

If there were no suicide bombers, there would be no fence. The claim that its purpose is "apartheid" is a deliberate lie--a rich one, too, coming from the likes of Saudi Arabia and Jordan, who explicitly forbid the jews to enter or become citizens of their contries, by law.

You call this "apartheid" for a very simple reason: you want suicide bombers to continue to kill as many israelies as possible.

That`s ironic coming from a follower of the Mycroft school of can`t even say where the demand for a Greater Israel ends.

It is, however, rather easy to say where the demands of "greater Palestine" end: throwing the jews into the sea (see the palestinian charter, Arafat's speeches, religious sermons, children's school books, etc., etc., etc.)

Obviously, it's perfectly all right for the Palestinians to pursue a genocidal course aiming at a second holocaust, but it is "apartheid" for israel to defend itself.

It's "tired proganda", in other words, because--using the usual "big lie" technique--you consider genocidal murder of jews part of the "legitimate rights of the palestinian people", while jews defending themselves is "apartheid".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did you ever read such rubbish?

You claim that Israel and the West are under threat ie that their existence is threatend. You have said nothing which justifies this proposition. So why don't you? Take the easy one: Israel.

Explain to me, in detail, who threatens Israel's existence, how they threaten it, and how likely they are to destroy Israel. Give me a list of states which could destroy Israel. Give me your estimate for how long it is going to take Palestinian suicide bombers to utterly wipe out Israel. Unless you're willing to back up your arguments with solid fact and reasoning, don't bandy about words like genocide.

The idea that the Palestinians are pursuing a "genocidal policy" is a nonsense and a massive insult to victims of true genocide everywhere. Not only that, but you are wrong even on your own terms, since if the attacks by Palestinians against Israelis constitute genocide then the Israeli attacks -which kill many times more innocemt Palestinians than innocemt Israelis- must constitute an even greater "genocide".

In fact, as should be obvious, the terms genocide and ethnic cleansing are far more applicable to Israel's actions than those of the Palestinians. The Palestinians are using what limited means they have to try and expell an invading force from their land...land which is recognized as theirs by almost every Court on earth. Israel is using incomparably greater means to gradually remove a people from their land, based upon colonialist imperatives and further "justified" through reference to a racist religious ideology that claims they are "entitled" to the land because of their ethnic identity. This form of "divine right" philospophy and narrative of a "chosen" or "superior" people is little different from the Aryan philosophies that dressd up nazi expansionism and a variety of other nasty little racist facisms throughout history.
Further evidence of this manifest racism can be seen in the repeated questions raised by so-called "moderate" Israelis as to why the Palestinians don't simply ship out to Jordan and other Arab states because they are, after all, "the same". One wonders, on that logic, why all the Israelis don't ship off to Europe and the US since they are basically white and would be happier there.

Furthermore, by raising the preposterous charge that the Palestinians are trying to bring about a "second holocaust" you are leaving the realm of sanity altogether...not to mention spitting in the face of every jew who lived or died during the first.
 
zenith-nadir said:


Demon subscribes to the tired old Israeli "land-grab" and "apartheid" propoganda... yet he lacks the mental capacity to ask himself these two simple questions;

1) Is the Israeli fence built in such a way that there is no technology known to mankind that can ever move or remove them?

2) Is the Israeli fence built in such a way that there is no political solution known to mankind that can ever move or remove them?

It looks downright flimsy next to the Berlin Wall, and that didn't even last 50 years. Growing up, it seemed as immovable as Everest.

See where I'm going with this, Demon?
 
To keep Cleopatra from having a coronary I am going to start a new thread called the fence.
 
Re: Re: Their brothers the Arabs.

zenith-nadir said:

3) Jordan occupies 77% of the original Palestine Mandate.

I'd like to see something to support that rather bizarre statement.
 
Re: Re: Re: Their brothers the Arabs.

Jon_in_london said:
I'd like to see something to support that rather bizarre statement.


Why is it "bizzare". Because you are too lazy to look up any map from the 1940's of the British mandate of Palestine? Or search for the history of Jordan?

BPART.GIF


Jordan annexed the West Bank and controlled it to the day it was lost in 1967. They never said a single word about a palestinian state in those 20 years.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Their brothers the Arabs.

zenith-nadir said:



Why is it "bizzare". Because you are too lazy to look up any map from the 1940's of the British mandate of Palestine? Or search for the history of Jordan?

BPART.GIF


Jordan annexed the West Bank and controlled it to the day it was lost in 1967. They never said a single word about a palestinian state in those 20 years.

They also didn't have a policy of creating 'settlements', stealing land and water.
 

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