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Merged The Zyklon Induction Columns at Auschwitz.

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Dave Rogers said:
The building was blown up. If things didn't move when they were blown up, it wouldn't be a very effective way to demolish them, would it? Provan found the holes, just not where his erstwhile fellow deniers were looking for them.

Dave
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I think I know what you're saying and it's not what Revdude thinks you're saying. But Revdude's interpretation isn't coming out of nowhere.

To use an example similar to the one above, let's say you have the roof with the Zyklon B induction holes in the roof. You then blow up the building and the roof is broken into any number of pieces. You find all the pieces of the roof and put it back together again. Are you saying it's possible that the holes won't be in the same spot as they were before the roof was blown up? That they shifted?
 
Dogzilla said:
I think I know what you're saying and it's not what Revdude thinks you're saying. But Revdude's interpretation isn't coming out of nowhere.

To use an example similar to the one above, let's say you have the roof with the Zyklon B induction holes in the roof. You then blow up the building and the roof is broken into any number of pieces. You find all the pieces of the roof and put it back together again. Are you saying it's possible that the holes won't be in the same spot as they were before the roof was blown up? That they shifted?
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How could you possible even need to make that distinction? Is the latter even a possibility?


edited for clarity
 
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Re: The OP.

It's all over? I can stop attending the meetings of the International Jewish Conspiracy for the Propogation of Slander against Nazis? We've been found out?

I can take down the fake family photos on the wall, and stop telling people that they died in Belsen? There's no point, because we've been discovered? Damn those revisionist investigators! We fabricated so much, so well, but we couldn't get the details of roof holes quite right, and sooner or later, some brave soul saw through the disguise, and had the courage to speak truth to power.

Well, I for one will not give it up so easily. I'm going to redouble my efforts in the International Jewish Conspiracy. Our program to convince most of the world that historical revisionists are actually stark raving lunatics is going very well. I think we might be able to keep this myth going for at least a few more years despite the evidence. By then we will have achieved world domination anyway.
 
Biscuit said:
How could you possible even need to make that distinction? Is the latter even a possibility?


edited for clarity
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No, it's not. I didn't think that is what was being said but I wanted to make sure so I asked for clarification. Revdude just assumed the latter was being said and ran with it.
 
Dogzilla said:
Dave does have a point here, Revdude. The "wire mesh" columns did not support the roof. They were attached to the concrete columns which supported the roof (IIRC). They were installed after the Auschwitz officials had cured natural death and didn't need a morgue anymore. They turned the now obsolete morgue into a gas chamber by busting a hole through the concrete roof next to the support columns. Then they installed the wire mesh Zyklon B induction columns by attaching them to the support columns and running them up through the hole in the roof. As the Russians were closing in on Auschwitz, the Nazis thought they could cover up their crimes by removing the wire mesh columns and filling in the holes in the roof. Since there's no record of these modifications on the blueprints, the wire mesh columns have never been found, and there's no trace of holes in the roof of the gas chamber today, the Nazis almost got away with it. Thank Dog absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence!
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This is getting beyond stupid.
Where did I ever say I thought wire mesh columns supported the roof?

Lets go back to Henryk Tauber's testimony.

The roof of the gas chamber was supported by concrete pillars running down the middle of its length. On either side of these pillars there were four others, two on each side. The sides of these pillars, which went up through the roof, were of heavy wire mesh. Inside this grid, there was another of finer mesh and inside that a third of very fine mesh. Inside this last mesh cage there was a removable can that was pulled out with a wire to recover the pellets from which the gas had evaporated.
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Okay, I'll make this as simple as I can.
Tauber states above that..
There were four wire mesh pillars on the sides of the concrete pillars,(two on each side) right?
These wire mesh pillars, (according to Tauber) extended through the roof, right?
Now to determine the size of these wire mesh pillars that Tauber claims existed we must turn to Michal Kula, who claims they were 70cm on each side. (about 27.55 inches) this claim is corroborated by Jamie McCarthy in his article, which I have linked to earlier.

Now, with all that being said...

In order for Tauber's statement to be true (that there were four wire mesh columns that protruded through the roof) there should be evidence of some of the holes still in existence.

The roof of the so-called gas chamber collapsed from the explosion. It did not blow apart and turn into unrecognizable rubble. It was made of heavily reinforced concrete and after falling in, resembles a heavily cracked roadway.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Ruin_of_the_gas_chamber_of_Crematorium_II.jpg

At the near end of the linked photo, should be a fairly good representation of the last hole if the aerial photo taken at wartime was real.
There is mininal damage to the roof there it would seem.
 
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Revdude said:
This is getting beyond stupid.
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well, then I suggest you follow through with your own proclamations:

Originally Posted by Revdude
I'm out of here, I'll let you and your brethren have the last word.

Originally Posted by Revdude
The game is over. Your holocaust is debunked. What's the point of even discussing it anymore.
 
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Dogzilla said:
They were installed after the Auschwitz officials had cured natural death and didn't need a morgue anymore.
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Disgusting though it is, this statement is actually pretty much true. The Auschwitz officials did a very good job of curing natural death by simply killing anyone who looked like they were unhealthy. And, of course, since the function of a morgue is to store corpses for identification and pending arrangements for burial or cremation, they didn't need one; every corpse was already identified, and the mass cremations could be carried out immediately after the mass murders.

As for the holes in the roof, Charles Provan, himself a former Holocaust denier, claims to have found them, displaced from their original positions surrounding a site directly above the base of the support column. The precise design is unknown, so the 70cm measurement has to be taken with a fair level of uncertainty; even if the wire mesh columns were 70cm on a side both above and below the roof, there's no need for the opening in the roof to be any larger than was needed to drop in the Zyklon pellets and remove them afterwards.

And this highlights another classic dishonest tactic used by Holocaust deniers: the appeal to perfection. They claim that the holes must not only exist, but must agree exactly with the somewhat speculative reconstruction drawn up after the fact, with no access to the original structures for reference. If any difference is found, they will not accept the possibility that beaten, starved, imprisoned and frightened people may not have been able to determine the fine details of engineering features that they weren't ever allowed to examine closely; rather, they take this as a flimsy excuse to dismiss a mountain of documentary, testimonial and physical evidence that consistently describes a feature of history that they want to edit out.

And, last of all, Revdude, you're lying about your OP. Just go back and read it, because we all can and have; your claim was that the columns were made of reinforced concrete, therefore they could not have been made of wire mesh, implying that there was only one type of column. You only backtracked from that to the "no holes, no Holocaust" argument when it was pointed out to you how stupid it was. The more you pretend any different, the more you expose yourself as dishonest, because we can all see what you said.

There are no dodges, coded words, or any way around the truth.
The OP is clearly claiming that the columns were made of reinforced concrete.

Dave
 
Revdude said:
This is getting beyond stupid.
Where did I ever say I thought wire mesh columns supported the roof?

Lets go back to Henryk Tauber's testimony.




Okay, I'll make this as simple as I can.
Tauber states above that..
There were four wire mesh pillars on the sides of the concrete pillars,(two on each side) right?
These wire mesh pillars, (according to Tauber) extended through the roof, right?
Now to determine the size of these wire mesh pillars that Tauber claims existed we must turn to Michal Kula, who claims they were 70cm on each side. (about 27.55 inches) this claim is corroborated by Jamie McCarthy in his article, which I have linked to earlier.

Now, with all that being said...

In order for Tauber's statement to be true (that there were four wire mesh columns that protruded through the roof) there should be evidence of some of the holes still in existence.

The roof of the so-called gas chamber collapsed from the explosion. It did not blow apart and turn into unrecognizable rubble. It was made of heavily reinforced concrete and after falling in, resembles a heavily cracked roadway.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Ruin_of_the_gas_chamber_of_Crematorium_II.jpg

At the near end of the linked photo, should be a fairly good representation of the last hole if the aerial photo taken at wartime was real.
There is mininal damage to the roof there it would seem.
Click to expand...

Why do you hate Jews?
 
Revdude reminds me of a story I read by a high school biology instructor. One of his students (a young woman) insisted that men had one less rib than do women. The classroom had a skeleton from a male and one from a woman, and so he had the young woman count the ribs. Every single time she counted she got the result she wanted, the male had one fewer rib. She finally got the correct count when the teacher had the student label each rib with a yellow stickey note. No matter how many time you point out to revdude that the support column is NOT the same as the wire mesh Zyklon columns, he simply will not grasp it.....
 
How was the original chimney at Krema 1 attached?

I don't imagine that there is much disagreement that the chimney that stands behind Krema 1 at the main Auschwitz camp is a reconstruction, assembled by the Soviets after the war.
In fact, upon inspection, the chimney is not even connected to the building in any way.

http://scrapbookpages.com/AuschwitzScrapbook/2005Photos/GasChamberChimney.jpg

The original chimney was round, according to Filip Müller, a prisoner who claimed he worked in the crematorium.

So my question is simple.
How was the original chimney attached to the crematory ovens?
There is no physical connection under the grass, there is no piping going into the reconstructed ovens, in fact, the ovens are not connected to anything.

On the roof, there is a small red chimney that was once connected to a small stove inside.
The larger chimney to the right in this image is not within the proximity to the ovens.

http://scrapbookpages.com/AuschwitzScrapbook/1998Photos/Roof.jpg

The cut in openings have nothing to do with a chimney.

So where did the original chimney connect?
 
You're complaining that the Soviet reconstruction failed to restore the crematorium to full functionality?

I can see how that could be inconvenient. Whom were you planning on cremating there?

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Myriad said:
You're complaining that the Soviet reconstruction failed to restore the crematorium to full functionality?

I can see how that could be inconvenient. Whom were you planning on cremating there?

Respectfully,
Myriad
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I'm not complaining about anything.
I asked what I thought was a simple straightforward question.

Here it is again, in case you missed it.

How was the original chimney attached?
 
I am not exactly sure what the original chimney would have looked like, probably less wide for one thing.

There were supposedly 3 oven located in Krema I. Two of them have had reconstructed ovens built but in the third site - which has been left vacant - it is possible to see the opening of the flues in the floor and even look inside them. So while it would be desirable to confirm the presence of underground flues at the other two positions with remote sensing technology, the World's leading advocate of Krema Denial at this point has no reason to doubt the authenticity of the various plans of Krema I. And these plans show a chimney roughly in the position of today's position connected by an underground flue.
 
little grey rabbit said:
I am not exactly sure what the original chimney would have looked like, probably less wide for one thing.

There were supposedly 3 oven located in Krema I. Two of them have had reconstructed ovens built but in the third site - which has been left vacant - it is possible to see the opening of the flues in the floor and even look inside them. So while it would be desirable to confirm the presence of underground flues at the other two positions with remote sensing technology, the World's leading advocate of Krema Denial at this point has no reason to doubt the authenticity of the various plans of Krema I. And these plans show a chimney roughly in the position of today's position connected by an underground flue.
Click to expand...

Thanks LGR

See guys, that wasn't so hard was it!
 
Revdude said:
I don't imagine that there is much disagreement that the chimney that stands behind Krema 1 at the main Auschwitz camp is a reconstruction, assembled by the Soviets after the war.
In fact, upon inspection, the chimney is not even connected to the building in any way.

http://scrapbookpages.com/AuschwitzScrapbook/2005Photos/GasChamberChimney.jpg

The original chimney was round, according to Filip Müller, a prisoner who claimed he worked in the crematorium.

So my question is simple.
How was the original chimney attached to the crematory ovens?
There is no physical connection under the grass, there is no piping going into the reconstructed ovens, in fact, the ovens are not connected to anything.

On the roof, there is a small red chimney that was once connected to a small stove inside.
The larger chimney to the right in this image is not within the proximity to the ovens.

http://scrapbookpages.com/AuschwitzScrapbook/1998Photos/Roof.jpg

The cut in openings have nothing to do with a chimney.

So where did the original chimney connect?
Click to expand...


Let me anticipate some of the answers:

  • Who cares if it's a pathetic reconstruction that obviously would not work that was passed off to tourists for forty years as the original gas chamber?

  • How do you know there was an original chimney, Nazi boy?

  • Do you have any of that, you know, pesky evidence that a chimney cannot function as a chimney unless it is attached to the fireplace?

I'm sure there are many ways in which the pro-holocaust lobby can spin this but this should be a good start.
 
I acknowledge the truth of Apartheid and American slavery.

But no, I do not hate white people.
 
Didn't you get enough of a spanking in the thread you abandoned after being backed into a corner, Revdude?

Why are you even still here spewing this crap? Isn't the holocaust already debunked, according to you, and there's no need for further discussion? Seems if you thought the holocaust was already debunked you would sit back and savor your victory, yet here you are with yet another minutiae discussion.

ETA: To sum up the argument you're JAQing off about - there is no current connection between the ovens and the current chimney, and that means there never was any connection between the ovens and any chimney, and if nobody can show me exactly how the chimney was connected, the holocaust never happened. Did I get that about right?

By the way, Auschwitz hosts a rather extensive archive containing thousands of period documents and photos. If you are interested in how the original chimney was connected to the ovens, that's where you'll find your answer. Of course, it entails leaving the basement and doing some on-the-spot research.
 
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