The War on Fundamentalism

[Blue Monk]

Originally posted by Blue Monk
I care not whether those who would fly planes into buildings are Muslims or Christians, only that blind faith makes any act possible if one believes it is the will of God/Allah.

For a variety of reasons, both due to its docrtines and to other social reasons that are not strictly speaking religious, Islamic fundamentalism is a far, FAR greater danger to the world than any other sort of fundamentalism.

I agree except for the doctrines part. The Bible is filled with all sort of nastiness toward heathens, unbelievers, fornicators, women and disrespectful children. I for one do not wish to see which religion can out nasty the other.

The part I agree with is the Islamic Fundamentalism is the current big threat.

My point is still that it is the fundamentalism that is the problem, not Islam.

Christianity has a full and rich history of chopping people up in the name of God, from the Inquisition (exaggerated true), to the Crusades, to Salem to name only a few. There is little doubt in my mind that the fundamentalist belief that the Jews killed Christ played a major role in the holocaust.

Islamic Fundamentalism is only the dangerous fundamentalism du jour.

Any group that will not question its own logic is dangerous.

 

[dsm]

"Profound" would surely mean that it affects day-to-day life in a serious way, but I can't see that. The economy has carried on in pretty much the way it was going, WalMart continues to be a growing evil (allegedly), great and dreadful TV continues to be produced, technology advances. Pork-barrel politics continues to thrive. The practical effects are minimal.

I miss your point here totally. 9/11 changed much:

• The costs (both monetary and convenience) in air travel to safeguard the traveller have gone up dramatically in the US and, most likely, worldwide.
• The stock market is only now recovering from the impact of 9/11 and may still slip back if another such incident occurs.
• Although pork barrel politics still thrive, how has it's direction changed since 9/11?
• Even Walmart changed because of 9/11

Our lives might become more restricted under the threat of terrorism (from any source), but is that the end of civilisation? We might lose some of the life we've become used to, but perhaps that kind of life is untenable in the long-term, humans being what they are.

So the terrorists win...?

And wasn't that the point that Varwoche was making?

 

[CapelDodger]

dsm : I don't see your examples as exhibiting a "profound" effect. 9/11 may have had a short-term effect on the stock-market but no more. Affairs like Enron were coming anyway. How much of the average weekly budget does air-travel consume? And the pork-barrel stays pretty much the same as ever - local and personal. Maybe WalMart has become softer and cuddlier, but profoundly so? I'm not convinced.

So the terrorists win...?

And wasn't that the point that Varwoche was making?

My point was that "less civilised" is not de facto "uncivilised". Uncivilised is 1940's Germany or Pol Pot's Cambodia. Examples like that didn't bring down global civilisation - although the defeat of totalitarianism in the 30's and 40's was a close-run thing. I don't see the kind of crisis that occurred then happening because of fundamentalist terrorism. Completely unconnected financial melt-down, yes, that I can see. Shortages of resources that a complex, inter-dependent economy has come to depend on, that I can see. Asteroid impact, of course. But I can't see Islamism bringing civilisation down.

 

[varwoche]

"Profound" would surely mean that it affects day-to-day life in a serious way, but I can't see that. The economy has carried on in pretty much the way it was going,

That US citizens are being jailed without right to an attorney reflects a profound change in our justice system, imo. This is one example of post 9/11 in the US.

 

[dsm]

My point was that "less civilised" is not de facto "uncivilised".

I guess that depends upon who's on the wrong end of the stick...

 

[Blue Monk]

That US citizens are being jailed without right to an attorney reflects a profound change in our justice system, imo. This is one example of post 9/11 in the US.

Profound beyond belief.

As a child growing up I was told that this was the very thing that made the Soviet Union and that it could never happen in the USA.

 

[CapelDodger]

from varwoche:

That US citizens are being jailed without right to an attorney reflects a profound change in our justice system, imo. This is one example of post 9/11 in the US.

That example I accept. But is it an over-reaction that we wouldn't have seen from a Gore administration (for instance)? And the Patriot Act (it is down to that, isn't it?) may not stand for long, of course. It'll be interesting to see if the Kerry/Edwards campaign has much to say on this matter.

The Oklahoma bombing didn't get the same resonse, but that happened under a different administration.