The War on Drugs is Useless

Amazer said:
For one, people with a dependence on heroin are just as much sitting at home, unable to hold jobs in your current system.
Society is already subsidizing their drug habit. It's just that the source of funding changes to an extent.
Click to expand...

One of my GPs was running a methodone clinic for both coccaine and heroin addicts, and it was really surprising to see who the addicts were.

The clinic was surrounded with Mercedes, BMWs and other such expensive cars, not the down and outs that I expected.

Heroin is a funny drug, if people have access to medical grade heroin, they can remain quite high functioning in society.
 
nvidiot said:
@ alt-f4

Is that really your reason for not using illegal drugs?
Click to expand...

Yes, I can't say that I make all my decision this way but if not using legal drugs might stop an innocent child from being murdered in Juarez then why not? I don't feel the same way when I don't recycle every can.

If these drugs were produced and manufactured under a legal and regulated environment would you take them?
Click to expand...

I might, but it's such a hypothetical I really can't say. Do you mean producing herion and cocaine in the United States or importing it?

If you could produce your own legally would you?
Click to expand...

No, I'm not that handy and would probably end up killing myself.
 
Of course, buying illegal drugs does not necessarily mean supporting Mexican drug cartels.

Cocaine - Almost certainly comes to the US via Mexico.
Heroin - Good chance. A lot of it comes from Mexico but it is imported from other places also. I believe Mexican heroin is almost exclusively black tar.
Methamphetamine - Good chance. A lot of it comes from superlabs in Mexico. It is also produced domestically, however.
Weed - Maybe. But the good weed is generally grown in the US or Canada.

Mexican drug cartels will almost certainly have nothing to do with other illegal drugs like MDMA and LSD.
 
Last edited:
Bikewer said:
Lallante:
I would imagine that the percentage of folks who have had a "profound hallucinatory experience" would be rather tiny compared to the numbers of individuals who "just want to get high" to excape for some period their life's problems.
Most of the people I encounter who are drug users are far from thoughtful folks seeking transcendent experiences...They are addicts seeking to steal enough to get another hit of rock.
We know that some folks are far more susceptible to addiction than others, and that certain drugs are powerfully effective in that regard. There are folks who manage to "chip" heroin for years without ever becoming addicted.
There are folks who take a single hit of crack and are on the road down....

Over the years, I've known many users of various substances. To the question, "why do you...." (insert substance of choice here) The reply is often, "to get through the day."

This is incomprehensible to me, since I frequently find that there is not enough hours in the day to do all the things I want to do. However, it's obviously compelling to many.
Click to expand...

You move in the wrong circles then.

I assure you there are orders of magnitude more casual, healthy users than there are abusers. You probably even know some casual hard-drug users. Obviously they don't like to broadcast that fact to non-users, particularly ones with strong and closed views on the subject such as yourself.
 
Last edited:
dtugg said:
Of course, buying illegal drugs does not necessarily mean supporting Mexican drug cartels.

Cocaine - Almost certainly comes to the US via Mexico.
Heroin - Good chance. A lot of it comes from Mexico but it is imported from other places also. I believe Mexican heroin is almost exclusively black tar.
Methamphetamine - Good chance. A lot of it comes from superlabs in Mexico. It is also produced domestically, however.
Weed - Maybe. But the good weed is generally grown in the US or Canada.

Mexican drug cartels will almost certainly have nothing to do with other illegal drugs like MDMA and LSD.
Click to expand...

Weed grows wild around here. There is a lot of drug use in the local city, but exceedingly little gang violence. The only trouble usually comes from prescription drug, crack, and heroin users crashing cars, breaking into houses, and trying to run down cops with their cars.

I'm not even joking about that last one. In the most recent indecent the cops just shot him four times in the jaw and he gave up.
 
WildCat said:
And then they show pictures of automatic rifles equipped with grenade launchers, and machine guns.

None of which likely came from a US gun show.

Want to know where those guns come from? Corruption in the Mexican army and police.
Click to expand...

I always laugh when they show all the 'American guns' that are killing people in Mexico, and then show a bunch of AK-47. Also, the 'American made cop killer' handguns that blow through body armor, and they show the FN-FiveseveN from Belgium.
 
tyr_13 said:
Weed grows wild around here. There is a lot of drug use in the local city, but exceedingly little gang violence. The only trouble usually comes from prescription drug, crack, and heroin users crashing cars, breaking into houses, and trying to run down cops with their cars.

I'm not even joking about that last one. In the most recent indecent the cops just shot him four times in the jaw and he gave up.
Click to expand...
4 times in the jaw? That's a pretty tight group for a target inside a moving car!
 
WildCat said:
4 times in the jaw? That's a pretty tight group for a target inside a moving car!
Click to expand...

They waited for him to ram a cop car and the officers outside the vehicle shot him through the open driver's side window from about twenty feet away. Still, a nice group.
 
tyr_13 said:
I always laugh when they show all the 'American guns' that are killing people in Mexico, and then show a bunch of AK-47. Also, the 'American made cop killer' handguns that blow through body armor, and they show the FN-FiveseveN from Belgium.
Click to expand...

I understand that these two weapons are not manufactured in the United States but can't they be purchased in the U.S., legally or illegally?
 
tyr_13 said:
Also, the 'American made cop killer' handguns that blow through body armor, and they show the FN-FiveseveN from Belgium.
Click to expand...
I'm extremely skeptical that a 5.7x28mm round can penetrate police body armor. Especially when fired from a pistol.

It's not a particularly powerful cartridge.
 
Alt+F4 said:
I understand that these two weapons are not manufactured in the United States but can't they be purchased in the U.S., legally or illegally?
Click to expand...

Yes, just as they can be in Mexico. It isn't that the US gun market is remarkably corrupt, but that the US is next to Mexico.


WildCat said:
I'm extremely skeptical that a 5.7x28mm round can penetrate police body armor. Especially when fired from a pistol.

It's not a particularly powerful cartridge.
Click to expand...

I'm a big fan of that handgun, and that round. I'm also skeptical that it will penetrate police body armor, especially the civilian available rounds.
 
Lallante:

I'm a cop. Have been for 40 years. So...Yeah, I move in the "wrong circles". We arrest those folks I was talking about on a constant and repeating basis.

Having been around as long as I have....

Starting in police work in 1968, we had a chief of the narcotics bureau who was convinced that weed was "destroying the fabric of America" and who would write long polemics in that regard.
No one had the heart to tell him that a fairly substantial percentage of the police officers were dope-smokers.... Usually, the guys would tell you they smoked so that they "wouldn't drink"...The perils of alcohol being well known.

I'm well aware that there are many who use drugs recreationally and don't have any particular problem with them...Known many.
As to what percentage of folks who do this is in relation to the sorts of individuals I deal with on the street....I wouldn't have a clue.
We do see a lot of ruined lives as a result of drugs and the drug trade.

As to my "closed mind"...If you had any history of reading my posts on this subject you'd see that I consider the "war on drugs" to be an utter failure and a waste of money and effort.
Personally, at my age, I do not see the attraction of intoxication of any sort. Got stoned exactly once...Didn't care for the experience. Never tried any hallucinogens, don't care to. I find my unaltered "little gray cells" to be quite creative on their own.
 
BenBurch said:
Child abuse is not a crime where somebody profits... Makes all the difference here.
Click to expand...

Child porn is a form of child abuse and a crime where somebody profits, plus it hasn't been weeded out, despite ferocious efforts.

Shall we legalize that as well?

McHrozni
 
tyr_13 said:
Yes, just as they can be in Mexico. It isn't that the US gun market is remarkably corrupt, but that the US is next to Mexico.
Click to expand...

It's my understanding that Mexico has quite strict gun control laws. Yes, why would murderous drug criminals respect Mexican law? I don't think they would but since it's very hard for civilians to get guns legally in Mexico I would think the supply would be low, thus turn to the United States.

As you said, the U.S. is next to Mexico. It makes more sense for the drug cartels to be getting weapons from their nearest neighbor rather than having them imported from say Russia.
 
Alt+F4 said:
Add to that American weapons manufactuers. I believe that Mexican drug cartels get 95% of their guns from the U.S.
Click to expand...

I doubt eventual sales to Mexican drug mafia amount to a significant percentage of sales. There are about 4.4 million guns produced in the US every year.

McHrozni
 
McHrozni said:
I doubt eventual sales to Mexican drug mafia amount to a significant percentage of sales. There are about 4.4 million guns produced in the US every year.

McHrozni
Click to expand...

I should have rewritten that. I meant to say American gun sellers, not American gun manufacturers.
 
BeAChooser said:
Do this by making the drugs available to those who want/need them at or below what it costs those who want to profit from them to make them.
Click to expand...

Your problem here is LSD. The active dose is so low that you would probably have to pretty much give it away to make this viable. A couple of competenent Phd chemists could pump out enough of the stuff to keep the planet happy.
 
dtugg said:
Prohibitionists, Joaquín Guzmán LoeraWP, Mexico's most powerful drug lord would like to thank you for making and keeping drugs illegal in the USA. Thanks to you he is one of the richest and most powerful people in the world (he is on the Forbes list for both). Who knows how many people he has killed to get there.
Click to expand...

Knock it off with your self-righteous prattle dtugg. You admitted to using every piece of gear under the sun with your druggie friends. You admitted to buying their product. You put that money in their hands because you felt like zonking your neurons. You're the one that created the demand for their product. Now you've got the audacity to tell others that the cartels are their fault? Here's an idea; take responsibility for your actions before blaming everyone else.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom